US & Germany sending tanks to Ukraine

[Cypress]

US and Germany ready to send tanks to Ukraine

After months of reluctance, the US and Germany reportedly plan to send tanks to Ukraine, in what Kyiv hopes will be a game-changer on the battlefield.

US President Joe Biden's administration is expected to announce plans to send at least 30 M1 Abrams tanks.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has also reportedly decided to send at least 14 Leopard 2 tanks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-64391272.amp

[Gondwanaland]

US and Germany ready to send tanks to Ukraine

After months of reluctance, the US and Germany reportedly plan to send tanks to Ukraine, in what Kyiv hopes will be a game-changer on the battlefield.

US President Joe Biden's administration is expected to announce plans to send at least 30 M1 Abrams tanks.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has also reportedly decided to send at least 14 Leopard 2 tanks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-64391272.amp

Great to hear! The sooner Putin's wretched and vile invasion is stomped out, the better.

[Doc Dutch]

US and Germany ready to send tanks to Ukraine

After months of reluctance, the US and Germany reportedly plan to send tanks to Ukraine, in what Kyiv hopes will be a game-changer on the battlefield.

US President Joe Biden's administration is expected to announce plans to send at least 30 M1 Abrams tanks.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has also reportedly decided to send at least 14 Leopard 2 tanks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-64391272.amp

Hopefully they'll help break up the offensive Putin is planning. I foresee a lot more dead Russians rotting on Ukrainian soil.

[ExpressLane]

30 Abrams that will make a difference! Germany needs to send more Leopard 2

[Walt]

30 Abrams that will make a difference! Germany needs to send more Leopard 2

14 tanks is a company of tanks. NATO tanks sometimes act alone, but usually work in company strength. The strategy, and a fair bit of the technology is built around 14: three platoons of four tanks, a command tank, and a executive officer tank.

Russia does not have much air support in Ukraine, so a company of NATO tanks, in theory, would be very difficult to stop... If it can cross the Dnieper River, and stay supplied. Yes, that is a "in theory" followed by two ifs, but it is about the best the Ukrainians can hope for.

30 Abrams tanks is two NATO companies of tanks with two replacement tanks. In theory(that word again), Germans would be able to replace losses as they happened, but American replacements would take longer.

Theories are better than just prayers, so the Ukrainians are doing better than before.

And seriously, if they can get tanks and supplies over the river, they could have a major breakthrough. They could actually win the war with a few dozen tanks.

[Cypress]

14 tanks is a company of tanks. NATO tanks sometimes act alone, but usually work in company strength. The strategy, and a fair bit of the technology is built around 14: three platoons of four tanks, a command tank, and a executive officer tank.

Russia does not have much air support in Ukraine, so a company of NATO tanks, in theory, would be very difficult to stop... If it can cross the Dnieper River, and stay supplied. Yes, that is a "in theory" followed by two ifs, but it is about the best the Ukrainians can hope for.

30 Abrams tanks is two NATO companies of tanks with two replacement tanks. In theory(that word again), Germans would be able to replace losses as they happened, but American replacements would take longer.

Theories are better than just prayers, so the Ukrainians are doing better than before.

And seriously, if they can get tanks and supplies over the river, they could have a major breakthrough. They could actually win the war with a few dozen tanks.

Leopard II was always supposed to be the superior choice in main battle tank for Ukraine. M1A1 Abrams is supposed to be very high maintenance and a fuel hog. Leopard II is supposed to be competitive and effective against any modern tank the Russians have.

[Walt]

Leopard II was always supposed to be the superior choice in main battle tank for Ukraine. M1A1 Abrams is supposed to be very high maintenance and a fuel hog. Leopard II is supposed to be competitive and effective against any modern tank the Russians have.

Not to mention that everyone in that part of the world just trusts German engineering. Heck we trust it to, which is why the Germans designed the turret on the Abrams.

The NATO tanks are far from interchangeable, but they all made most of the same design decisions. It is fair to just refer to NATO tanks.

[Cypress]

30 Abrams that will make a difference! Germany needs to send more Leopard 2

14 is the minimum Germany says it will send. The key thing about Germany's approval is it allows other countries who licence the Leopard II to send their tanks. Poland and Czechia are supposedly going to send their Leopards now that Germany has given the go ahead.

[Hawkeye10]

Wars and their consequences tend to expand.

[Walt]

Wars and their consequences tend to expand.

Surrending to aggressors tends to expand as we learned in WWII. If we allow Putin to easily win, he will try again, and again. And the Chinese will try. And the Turks will try. And on and on.

[Cypress]

Wars and their consequences tend to expand.

We're not going to live in a world where powerful
aggressor states can invade their neighbors and steal their land.

[Walt]

US and Germany ready to send tanks to Ukraine

After months of reluctance, the US and Germany reportedly plan to send tanks to Ukraine, in what Kyiv hopes will be a game-changer on the battlefield.

US President Joe Biden's administration is expected to announce plans to send at least 30 M1 Abrams tanks.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has also reportedly decided to send at least 14 Leopard 2 tanks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-64391272.amp

There was an amazing amount of certainty from some that the tank was dead, but it seems to still be useful in what it was built for... major land wars in Europe... Which we all thought were not going to happen anymore.

[moon]

Putin has stated that ' ' this takes the conflict to a new level ' '

Of course- a ' new level ' is what NATO wants. The lunatics have taken over.

[Nordberg]

Putin has stated that ' ' this takes the conflict to a new level ' '

Of course- a ' new level ' is what NATO wants. The lunatics have taken over.

This reminds me of LBJ in Vietnam, claiming that every Vietnamese attempt to save their homes and fight back was an escalation. it was his excuse to step things up.
Putin could stop this all today. 1420 shows that more and more Russians want it to end.

[moon]

This reminds me of LBJ in Vietnam, claiming that every Vietnamese attempt to save their homes and fight back was an escalation. it was his excuse to step things up.
Putin could stop this all today. 1420 shows that more and more Russians want it to end.

No- now that it's a NATO war all the anti-NATO conditioning will be kicking in. They've been trained to hate and fear NATO just as Americans have been trained to hate and fear Russia.
Many will have objected to a limited incursion into Ukraine- but most will believe that NATO's involvement is an existential threat to their country.

We'll see- although I doubt that we'll ever know the result should Biden respond in kind to Russian use of tactical nukes in a non-NATO country.

Biden knows what the US will do should the Russians go nuclear- and the Russians know what they will do if Biden dares.
And all over a fucking gas pipe.