New peak rates mean charging electric cars more expensive than petrol

[T. A. Gardner]

Both have to be manufactured. You will put more energy into manufacturing them then you get by using the fuel in a fuel cell.

If you are using massive amounts of nuclear power on your grid it doesn't matter. Solar and / or wind could be used too as the manufacturing process can be intermittent to some degree.

[Into the Night]

No way. They are not put on valuable land. Do you think we are running out of open acreage? Do you ever drive outside the city? That is definitely not a problem.

How would you know? You don't drive outside the city very far! You said so yourself!

[Into the Night]

You are blind to facts and reality

Hatred and anger blinds anyone. It's all they have.

[Into the Night]

And, that's dubious on its own. Those claiming that it will "save the planet" or some such are usually scientific and engineering illiterates parroting favored political dogma.

He has already discarded the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law. He discards the Chapman cycle as well.
He also discards the engineering requirements to provide the power needed to implement his 'Utopia' of tyranny by mandating electric cars.
He also, of course, discards the effects of free markets and what it will do to the price of raw materials to manufacture all these EVs.

Obviously he figures the planet is somehow 'damaged' and needs 'saving', even though he can't define this 'damage'. Vague meaningless buzzwords like 'climate change' are favored lately (no one has been able to define 'climate change' either!).

[Into the Night]

If you are using massive amounts of nuclear power on your grid it doesn't matter.

TANSTAAFL. It does. Nuclear fuel is not renewable, and is heavily controlled by the government. Further, nuclear power is not a solution for these twits since they are afraid of a 'Hiroshima' in their community (which just demonstrates how little know about nuclear fuel!). The SDTC is shutting down it's last nuclear power plant in 2024. The SDTC is importing almost all their power now from the WRIC.

Solar and / or wind could be used too as the manufacturing process can be intermittent to some degree.

Remember, these are the most expensive methods of producing power, watt for watt. You have to transmit it to the hydrogen manufacturing plants too. That's a lotta hydrogen you're talking about there!

Hydrogen today is made by fracturing a hydrocarbon, leaving CO2 as a result. Very little of it is electrolyzed.

Wasting tremendous amounts of power like this to manufacture hydrogen isn't going to work. You are just trying to justify wasting energy. This is wasting even more energy than just using EVs require.

It also has the same problems of charging large numbers of EVs. Generating sufficient power AND transmitting it to where it is needed. You already are aware that electrical power isn't stored. It is generated on demand to the changing loads second by second.
You are already aware what happens when a transmission line that's overloaded sags (until somewhere it eventually touches a tree and trips out).
You are already aware what happens to 2nd and 3rd level relay stations when a transmission trips out like this.

This is how grids collapse.

If operators are fast enough and on the ball, they will shed load before it gets too far. No one wants a blackstart.

[Diesel]

You are blind to facts and reality

There is not now nor will there be a food shortage because of solar panels. You're a fucking moron.

[Joe Capitalist]

And, that's dubious on its own. Those claiming that it will "save the planet" or some such are usually scientific and engineering illiterates parroting favored political dogma.

In the process of turning any source of energy into kinetic energy (the energy of motion), there will be some losses. As the chemical energy is transformed into motion through internal combustion, most of the energy lost is heat and friction, to a lesser extent. According to Inside EVs, most modern engines achieve about 40% efficiency ratings, which means more than half of the energy stored in the fuel is lost to friction and dissipated heat. Nissan announced in 2021 that it has an engine in development that will achieve 50% efficiency but that it is only meant to be a generator in a hybrid system (via CNET). Furthermore, additional energy is lost throughout the drivetrain, and parasitic losses from other systems in the car further reduce the overall efficiency at the wheels.
Internal combustion engine efficiency has increased dramatically over the last century. However, technological breakthroughs in battery technology have allowed EVs to become viable for regular use, and they present a significant advantage in energy usage. Yale Climate Connections recently published an article noting the efficiency difference between the EV and ICE. With an EV equipped with regenerative braking, the total energy lost while driving is about 11%. Losses from the input to the motor initially amount to about 35%, but the regen braking recaptures about 22% of that.
The takeaway is that electric power is a significantly more efficient use of energy.

[T. A. Gardner]

In the process of turning any source of energy into kinetic energy (the energy of motion), there will be some losses. As the chemical energy is transformed into motion through internal combustion, most of the energy lost is heat and friction, to a lesser extent. According to Inside EVs, most modern engines achieve about 40% efficiency ratings, which means more than half of the energy stored in the fuel is lost to friction and dissipated heat. Nissan announced in 2021 that it has an engine in development that will achieve 50% efficiency but that it is only meant to be a generator in a hybrid system (via CNET). Furthermore, additional energy is lost throughout the drivetrain, and parasitic losses from other systems in the car further reduce the overall efficiency at the wheels.
Internal combustion engine efficiency has increased dramatically over the last century. However, technological breakthroughs in battery technology have allowed EVs to become viable for regular use, and they present a significant advantage in energy usage. Yale Climate Connections recently published an article noting the efficiency difference between the EV and ICE. With an EV equipped with regenerative braking, the total energy lost while driving is about 11%. Losses from the input to the motor initially amount to about 35%, but the regen braking recaptures about 22% of that.
The takeaway is that electric power is a significantly more efficient use of energy.

You are wrong and here's why in a visual presentation.

For example, you keep mentioning regenerative braking. That might be true in stop and go low speed urban traffic, but its utter bullshit to think it would work on highway driving over long distances where there is no breaking involved and speeds are much higher meaning higher rolling resistance and drag.

[ptif219]

Hatred and anger blinds anyone. It's all they have.

They already have problems in New York with not enough chargers. It will only get worse


https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/e...rging-stations

[ptif219]

There is not now nor will there be a food shortage because of solar panels. You're a fucking moron.

Read my links they are taking away tens of thousands of acres for solar panels. That means far less food when there is already a world food shortage


https://www.usnews.com/news/world/ar...-food-shortage

[Into the Night]

They already have problems in New York with not enough chargers. It will only get worse


https://www.foxbusiness.com/energy/e...rging-stations

They already have problems in the SDTC (formerly California) with providing sufficient power for their chargers, too.

[Joe Capitalist]

You are wrong and here's why in a visual presentation.

For example, you keep mentioning regenerative braking. That might be true in stop and go low speed urban traffic, but its utter bullshit to think it would work on highway driving over long distances where there is no breaking involved and speeds are much higher meaning higher rolling resistance and drag.

Whine all you want. EVs are taking over and all your bullshit isn't going to change a damn thing.

Tesla bursts into top 10 best-selling cars in the world with 2 models;
The industry should be scared

Tesla has burst into the top 10 best-selling cars in the world with not just one but two models in 2022. It’s something that the industry should be scared of, as manufacturing electric vehicles in volume becomes clearly disruptive.
It’s hard to argue against the fact that electric vehicles are taking over.
Their market shares are rising slowly but steadily in most markets, and while they still account for a small fraction of new car sales, there are a few tidbits of data that point clearly to EVs taking over the industry faster than people think.
A market like Norway is a good example and window into the future of the broader auto industry with now over 80% of new cars sales being electric, and fossil fuel-powered vehicle sales have slowed to a crawl.
Another good example is the fact that all the fastest-growing car models are electric, and they are now even reaching the top 10 best-selling vehicles in the world.
According to data compiled by Focus to Move, electric vehicles, more specifically the Tesla Model Y and Model 3, have entered the top 10 best-selling electric vehicles in the world:
Toyota Corolla: 1.12 million (down 2% vs last year)
Toyota RAV4: 870,000 (down 14% versus last year)
Ford F-Series: 787,000 (down 9% versus last year)
Tesla Model Y: 759,000 (up 88% versus last year)
Toyota Camry: 675,000 (down 3% versus last year)
Honda CR-V: 601,000 (down 18% versus last year)
Tesla Model 3: 596,000 (up 4% versus last year)
As you can see, Toyota remains dominant with three models within the top five best-selling passenger vehicles in the world.
However, every single model in the top 10 is down year-over-year except for Tesla’s two vehicles.

[Diesel]

More wind generators than solar panels. Neither is really a problem as far as farmland goes.

Larger farms will often use windmills to pump water up from a nearby source to irrigate their crops. It's a sensible use for them.
Solar panels are the most expensive method of generating power. Windmills are the 2nd most expensive.

Neither will produce enough power to charge the fleet of EVs these idiots seem to think is going to be built. They're piddle power.

A single coal plant will produce more power than a State filled with windmills.


You will notice, though, that the only thing these idiots can do is call you names. They have no argument left. They just post insults...nothing else.
It means you're on the right track and you have a lot that is correct and true.

No, you fucking moron, that's not what any of this means.

You seem to be an autistic obsessive compulsive. You parse apart other people's posts, attach nonsensical gibberish to them, never link a source, ever, in your wasted and wasteful life, and then claim a victory that doesn't exist. You have mental disorders. As far as the declarative statements that you make without thinking, you are thoroughly full of shit and a lying asshole.

[T. A. Gardner]

Whine all you want. EVs are taking over and all your bullshit isn't going to change a damn thing.

So, there it is there. Joe Capitalist is actually Joe Fascist and wants to force everyone to do his bidding in a totalitarian world market where only EV's are allowed. No freedom of choice, no alternatives, nada, zip-point-shit. You either agree with Joe Fascist and take your crappy EV or you get nothing at all.

It still remains that the ONLY way EV's are gaining market share is by force of government. There is no popular sentiment or interest in them otherwise.

[Joe Capitalist]

So, there it is there. Joe Capitalist is actually Joe Fascist and wants to force everyone to do his bidding in a totalitarian world market where only EV's are allowed. No freedom of choice, no alternatives, nada, zip-point-shit. You either agree with Joe Fascist and take your crappy EV or you get nothing at all.

It still remains that the ONLY way EV's are gaining market share is by force of government. There is no popular sentiment or interest in them otherwise.

Do you really not know the difference between INCENTIVES and MANDATES? Are you really that stupid?
Methinks you either ARE that stupid or you know the difference but you choose to spread misinformation because EVs make you all butt-hurt for some strange reason.

Which is it, TA Garbler?