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Thread: Sending Tanks To The Ukraine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon 2023 View Post
    We aren't the worlds Cop! Who's buying the tanks?

    In the Korean war and the Vietnamese war, we were being "the world's cops." But in the Ukraine, it would be Ukrainians doing the fighting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    Go read pre WWII history

    If you leave out the parts that aren't pure bullshit, there wouldn't be much to read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    Go read pre WWII history
    That's my point! Why did you become the worlds cop since WW2?
    AM I, I AM's,AM I.
    What day is Michaelmas on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by debatefix View Post
    What was there for Russia to gain by helping North Korea or North Vietnam.
    Those were both capitalism vs communism wars
    AM I, I AM's,AM I.
    What day is Michaelmas on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by debatefix View Post
    In the Korean war and the Vietnamese war, we were being "the world's cops." But in the Ukraine, it would be Ukrainians doing the fighting.
    While we supply arms
    AM I, I AM's,AM I.
    What day is Michaelmas on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon 2023 View Post
    While we supply arms
    We do. And democrats have always sold more weapons than anyone else. Attempt to deny that. Dumb fuck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theywillneverlearn! View Post
    We do. And democrats have always sold more weapons than anyone else. Attempt to deny that. Dumb fuck.
    Obviously you Support party over country, that the Democrats are Your enemy not the Russians!
    AM I, I AM's,AM I.
    What day is Michaelmas on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by debatefix View Post
    What was there for Russia to gain by helping North Korea or North Vietnam.
    The Communist Comintern, or International, and its successors, was predicated on world domination by Communism. Assisting any group that was furthering that goal was supported.

    https://www.marxists.org/history/int...tern/index.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    The Communist Comintern, or International, and its successors, was predicated on world domination by Communism. Assisting any group that was furthering that goal was supported.

    https://www.marxists.org/history/int...tern/index.htm
    As the West falls to the WOKE neo Marxists that is what we have.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by debatefix View Post
    No doubt you have all seen this if you watch the news. The Ukraine is asking the West for tanks. But there seems to be some reluctance to do so. There was also reluctance to send the Ukraine fighter jets. But I don't see what the big deal is. During both the Korean War and the Vietnamese War, Russia sent both of them tanks and aircraft. I say that Tzar Putin and Russia in general could use a little payback in that regard. I see that there seems to be some reluctance to reply to me. But I will ask it anyway. Do you agree or disagree.
    Even as recently as a few years ago, Russians were in command on attacks on American troops in Syria. They provided tanks and aircraft... AND TANK DRIVERS AND AIRCRAFT PILOTS... to attack Americans. We are providing Ukraine with weapons to defend themselves. It is Putin's fault that he is the one invading Ukraine.

    Did you hear their most recent excuse? They are now claiming Ukraine was going to be invaded by Poland, and they are just invading to help protect Ukraine.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

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    Quote Originally Posted by serendipity View Post
    Not sure that Abrams can be sent at short notice and Ukrainians trained up on them.
    At the beginning of the war, it made no sense to send tanks to Ukraine. The war was going to be over in a few days, and it would take months to train Ukrainians in new equipment.

    Now that we know the war will go on for months more, it starts making more sense. The tanks we are sending now will probably not be used until Summer, but it looks probable there will be a war still in the Summer.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    They want to use them in 2 months.
    They might be able to use them somewhat in 2 months, but to very effectively use them will take at least 6 months.

    But in war, you use what you can. Slightly effective weapons are better than no weapons. Two months is a sign of desperation, but is a reasonable time scale for a desperate situation.

    The Dnieper River is the main front. Defending a river is relatively easy for a tank. Poorly trained troops with a tank can be effective in a purely defensive river crossing situation.

    The other side of that is offensively crossing a river is amazingly difficult, especially with tanks. That requires the highest trained troops. It is going to take time training Ukrainians to advance across the Dnieper.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

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    Quote Originally Posted by debatefix View Post
    Well unlike the Korean or Vietnamese wars, the Ukraine is right on Russia's doorstep. The only real way to stop attacks from Russia is to attack the places in Russia where the attacks are coming from. Inside Russia. Putin said that he would use nukes if he had to. And he is probably crazy enough to do so. Though I'm sure that giving Ukraine weapons, we could get them to promise to not go into Russia itself. As for our military technology, I saw a couple different things on news programs some years ago. They said that Chinese hackers had managed to steal most of our secret military technology. So in that regard, the cat is already out of the bag.
    You make a good point, but I disagree with you. During the Korean War, American troops came within a hundred miles of the Chinese border, and within two hundred miles of the Russian border. While that part of Russia is very far from the heart of Russia, Russia and China did feel immediately threatened. China felt so immediately threatened they joined the war to keep from having American troops on their border.

    Vietnam also shares a border with China, but that is a little different. China and Vietnam fought a war along that border, and American troops never approached that border. Still there was a huge American fleet in the South China Sea... That could not have been a good thing for China.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

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    Quote Originally Posted by debatefix View Post
    From what I have heard, the problem with the M1 Abrams is that it uses jet fuel. And there is question as to whether or not the Ukraine could fuel them.
    It can run on jet fuel or diesel, but American Abrams have been modified to only run on jet fuel. It take a little time, but they can be modified back to running on any fuel, or even modified to only run on diesel. The Australian Abrams tanks are modified to run on only diesel, and there has been cases where tanks have gone back and forth between the two militaries and been modified back and forth.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

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    Quote Originally Posted by debatefix View Post
    In the Korean war and the Vietnamese war, we were being "the world's cops." But in the Ukraine, it would be Ukrainians doing the fighting.
    So very true. Ukrainians are defending Ukraine.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

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