Satan At Work. Through YOU!

**Doc Dutch** · 01-30-2023, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMode

Funny. People can generally find exactly what they want in the Bible. You are no exception.

At the very least, do you acknowledge that hell is a place where people, or souls, are destroyed, even if they aren't tortured for eternity?

Exactly my point, kid. WTF do you think I meant with "The books are convoluted, but there is a lot left up to interpretation"?

No. Dude, you're missing the point: I don't believe "Hell" is a place people are sent to. You are free to believe it is like prison.

**ZenMode** · 01-30-2023, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle

Exactly my point, kid. WTF do you think I meant with "The books are convoluted, but there is a lot left up to interpretation"?

No. Dude, you're missing the point: I don't believe "Hell" is a place people are sent to. You are free to believe it is like prison.

So, there are two different hells in the Bible. Old Testament hell is where people are sent to be destroyed. New Testament hell is where people are sent for torture. Which do you believe in?

**Doc Dutch** · 01-30-2023, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMode

So, there are two different hells in the Bible. Old Testament hell is where people are sent to be destroyed. New Testament hell is where people are sent for torture. Which do you believe in?

You keep interpreting an ancient text as if it was set in concrete. It's not. You want to enforce a specific interpretation and I disagree with the view since, IMO, an all-merciful God doesn't condemn anyone. The people themselves choose to stay away from God/Grace/the Light/Goodness in favor of the darkness.

**Mason Michaels** · 01-30-2023, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMode

I'm not disputing anything you're saying. I'm just pointing out how sadistic God is, and not just as it relates to creating Satan and subsequently the Fall, but allowing Satan to do whatever he does to contribute to suffering while God stands by and watches. Not only that, but many of the people who are suffering the worst will end up in hell for eternity because they believe in the wrong god, so it's not like you can you "Sure, God orechestrated it so life on earth sucks, but you get to spend eternity in heaven" because 2/3 of the world is going to hell.

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**ZenMode** · 01-31-2023, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle

You keep interpreting an ancient text as if it was set in concrete. It's not. You want to enforce a specific interpretation and I disagree with the view since, IMO, an all-merciful God doesn't condemn anyone. The people themselves choose to stay away from God/Grace/the Light/Goodness in favor of the darkness.

You're playing word games. You say God doesn't condemn us and that we make our own choice to go toward light or dark, but that is only the case because Adam at the apple. Adam doesn't eat the apple if Satan doesn't exist and Satan doesn't exist unless God creates him.

I'll also add that God KNEW Adam would eat the apple because God knows everything.

**Doc Dutch** · 01-31-2023, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by ZenMode

You're playing word games.

You say God doesn't condemn us and that we make our own choice to go toward light or dark, but that is only the case because Adam at the apple. Adam doesn't eat the apple if Satan doesn't exist and Satan doesn't exist unless God creates him.

I'll also add that God KNEW Adam would eat the apple because God knows everything.

Go look in a mirror, dumbass.

Another of your interpretations in which I disagree.

Agreed on that part. Of course God knew Adam would eat the apple. The story is more story than fact. It's to explain why mankind is different from the other animals. While some later assholes interpreted it as "the original sin"..and pin it on Eve, BTW, it's really mankind becoming self-aware. Also note that, even in the story, Satan is just a temptor and didn't force anything. Eve chose to bite the apple and then offered it to Adam.... who appears to be a lazy dumbass in comparison to Eve.

This is another interpretation:
God created the Garden and in the middle put the Tree of Knowledge. Then he created all the animals to live in the Garden along with humans. God let the humans have dominion over the Garden but warned that the Tree of Knowledge would make them forever unhappy if they ate from it since it would make them self-aware and overly curious.

Adam was a bit of a dumbass and meekly complied, but Eve was a take-charge kinda gal and was already curious. Eventually she was curious enough to taste from the Tree of Knowledge. Awareness flooded through her like a wave. It both saddened her and gladdened her. Wanting to share this with Adam, she offered him a taste too. Adam, being a bit of a dumbass, would eat anything Eve gave. He, too, became self-aware.

God didn't throw Adam and Eve out of the Garden, they left like fledgling birds leaving a nest. God smiled.

**ZenMode** · 01-31-2023, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle

Go look in a mirror, dumbass.

Another of your interpretations in which I disagree.

Agreed on that part. Of course God knew Adam would eat the apple. The story is more story than fact. It's to explain why mankind is different from the other animals. While some later assholes interpreted it as "the original sin"..and pin it on Eve, BTW, it's really mankind becoming self-aware. Also note that, even in the story, Satan is just a temptor and didn't force anything. Eve chose to bite the apple and then offered it to Adam.... who appears to be a lazy dumbass in comparison to Eve.

This is another interpretation:
God created the Garden and in the middle put the Tree of Knowledge. Then he created all the animals to live in the Garden along with humans. God let the humans have dominion over the Garden but warned that the Tree of Knowledge would make them forever unhappy if they ate from it since it would make them self-aware and overly curious.

Adam was a bit of a dumbass and meekly complied, but Eve was a take-charge kinda gal and was already curious. Eventually she was curious enough to taste from the Tree of Knowledge. Awareness flooded through her like a wave. It both saddened her and gladdened her. Wanting to share this with Adam, she offered him a taste too. Adam, being a bit of a dumbass, would eat anything Eve gave. He, too, became self-aware.

God didn't throw Adam and Eve out of the Garden, they left like fledgling birds leaving a nest. God smiled.

Within the context of this discussion, the end result is the same no matter how you frame the narrative. As far as the influence of Satan on Earth, God's complicity in Satan's work and God's unwillingness to do anything about any/all suffering, those truths remain.

**Doc Dutch** · 01-31-2023, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by ZenMode

Within the context of this discussion, the end result is the same no matter how you frame the narrative. As far as the influence of Satan on Earth, God's complicity in Satan's work and God's unwillingness to do anything about any/all suffering.

You mean CFM's straw man which you are happy to pummel?

Fine; you're free to create all the straw men arguments you like, then burn them at the stake.

What you are not free to do is create a straw man, then make me agree with you on it. Have a nice day.

**debatefix** · 01-31-2023, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Concart

Shut the fuck up, troll.

You are in my thread. If you don't like what I say, go the fuck away, troll.

**debatefix** · 01-31-2023, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick

Jesus Fucking Christ.

People are masses of sub-atomic particles interacting in space.

Why do some of us seem to think that we have any influence as to how particles interact?

It sure looks like we're just along for the ride.

The few of us who may actually have a modicum of intellectual abilities are far too outnumbered to accomplish much.

You can accomplish even less on forums when you aren't allowed to say anything of consequence on matters that really matter. Each day that I sign on I'm surprised to see that I'm not banned.

**debatefix** · 01-31-2023, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle

Yes. You're not a Christian, which makes you a liar.

You do the work of satan. And you call me a liar. That's a joke.

**Doc Dutch** · 01-31-2023, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by debatefix

You do the work of satan. And you call me a liar. That's a joke.

You claim you don't believe in Satan. Were you lying then or are you lying now?

You are a liar, dumbass. That's been established. Now it's a matter of determining the degree.

Originally Posted by debatefix

Not that I believe in satan as a deity.

**ZenMode** · 02-01-2023, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle

You mean CFM's straw man which you are happy to pummel?

Fine; you're free to create all the straw men arguments you like, then burn them at the stake.

What you are not free to do is create a straw man, then make me agree with you on it. Have a nice day.

There's no steawman. God orchestrated and/or condones every terrible thing that happens. He knew Adam would eat the apple and start a chain of events. He also knew that revealing his son to a tiny area in the middle east, a thousand years after other religions were established around the world, would mean that the poorest people, who live the most horrible of lives, would, best case scenario, be destroyed in a lake of fire or spend eternity being tortured in hell.

**Doc Dutch** · 02-01-2023, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by ZenMode

There's no steawman. God orchestrated and/or condones every terrible thing that happens. ...

You lied when you claimed to be an atheist. Interesting.

**ZenMode** · 02-01-2023, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle

You lied when you claimed to be an atheist. Interesting.

lol. no. I can talk about the realities of the Bible just as I could talk about realities of any of the Harry Potter books.

The things I know about the Bible/God/World are why I'm atheist.