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Thread: The John F. Kennedy Assassination

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon 2023 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    I hadn't yet been born. I was a teen when Oliver Stone's JFK came out though. I didn't see it right away, but I certainly saw it and thought it was quite good. I later read a good portion of one of the books it was based on, Jim Marrs' first book, Crossfire.
    JFK movie has lots of fiction!
    Some, certainly, but Crossfire, one of the books that Oliver Stone used for the film, is full of facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon 2023 View Post
    Death of a President by William Manchester is the best source! Jackie asked him to write the book.
    Based on the views you've expressed about the JFK assassination, I strongly doubt it. Recently, more information has come out linking Lyndon Johnson to the JFK assassination. Here's an article I found interesting on the subject:

    Lyndon Johnson and the JFK Assassination | nomoregames.net


    From the article:

    **
    Literally at the very moment JFK was being assassinated in Dallas on 11-22-63, Don Reynolds was testifying in a closed session of the Senate Rules Committee about a suitcase of $100,000 given to LBJ for his role in securing a TFX fighter jet contract for Fort Worth’s General Dynamics.

    Three days before the JFK assassination, JFK told Evelyn Lincoln that he was going to get a new running mate for 1964. “I was fascinated by this conversation and wrote it down verbatim in my diary. Now I asked, “Who is your choice as a running-mate.’ He looked straight ahead, and without hesitating he replied, ‘at this time I am thinking about Gov. Terry Sanford of North Carolina. But it will not be Lyndon.'”

    At this point I should add that I think the CIA/military intelligence murdered John Kennedy for Cold War reasons, particularly over Cuba policy. The fact that the Kennedys were within days of politically executing & personally destroying Lyndon Johnson could very well have been the tripwire for the JFK assassination.

    **
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    Some, certainly, but Crossfire, one of the books that Oliver Stone used for the film, is full of facts.



    Based on the views you've expressed about the JFK assassination, I strongly doubt it. Recently, more information has come out linking Lyndon Johnson to the JFK assassination. Here's an article I found interesting on the subject:

    Lyndon Johnson and the JFK Assassination | nomoregames.net


    From the article:

    **
    Literally at the very moment JFK was being assassinated in Dallas on 11-22-63, Don Reynolds was testifying in a closed session of the Senate Rules Committee about a suitcase of $100,000 given to LBJ for his role in securing a TFX fighter jet contract for Fort Worth’s General Dynamics.

    Three days before the JFK assassination, JFK told Evelyn Lincoln that he was going to get a new running mate for 1964. “I was fascinated by this conversation and wrote it down verbatim in my diary. Now I asked, “Who is your choice as a running-mate.’ He looked straight ahead, and without hesitating he replied, ‘at this time I am thinking about Gov. Terry Sanford of North Carolina. But it will not be Lyndon.'”

    At this point I should add that I think the CIA/military intelligence murdered John Kennedy for Cold War reasons, particularly over Cuba policy. The fact that the Kennedys were within days of politically executing & personally destroying Lyndon Johnson could very well have been the tripwire for the JFK assassination.

    **
    The two years after JFK was murdered every possible conspiracy theory was on ever talk show and endless book!
    No one has had a bit of proof it wasn't LHO.
    That Johnson nonsense is old fake news!
    Half the people think the movie JFK is facts!
    It's not!
    I read all the books saw all the conspiracy theories, no one has proved that anyone but LHO was involved.
    What day is Michaelmas on?
    When is the Mass on Michael?
    AM I ,I AM's,AM I
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    Quote Originally Posted by I AM,I AM's,AM I View Post
    The two years after JFK was murdered every possible conspiracy theory was on ever talk show and endless book!
    No one has had a bit of proof it wasn't LHO.
    I never said there was proof, but I do believe it very likely that Lyndon Johnson was deeply involved in JFK's assassination.

    Quote Originally Posted by I AM,I AM's,AM I View Post
    That Johnson nonsense is old fake news!
    I'm not sure what you consider to be old news, but a former Nixon aide named Roger Stone claims Lyndon Johnson did it in a book he published in 2013. Daily Mail wrote an article about it here:
    Former Nixon aide claims he has evidence Lyndon B. Johnson arranged John F. Kennedy's assassination in new book | Daily Mail

    Quote Originally Posted by I AM,I AM's,AM I View Post
    Half the people think the movie JFK is facts!
    It's not!
    I read all the books saw all the conspiracy theories, no one has proved that anyone but LHO was involved.
    So you read Roger Stone's book? I still haven't, but I found Jim Marrs' earlier book Crossfire to be quite illuminating. Did you read Crossfire?
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Roger Stone that supports Trump?
    AM I, I AM's,AM I.
    What day is Michaelmas on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon 2023 View Post
    Roger Stone that supports Trump?
    Apparently so. I hadn't realized that until just now. I haven't read his book, but from the article I linked to, it looks well worth reading. I did read a good chunk of Jim Marrs' Crossfire a long time ago. I don't recall him being certain who was behind JFK's Assassination, but he presented plenty of evidence that Oswald was only used as a patsy, which is what Oswald himself said.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    Apparently so. I hadn't realized that until just now. I haven't read his book, but from the article I linked to, it looks well worth reading. I did read a good chunk of Jim Marrs' Crossfire a long time ago. I don't recall him being certain who was behind JFK's Assassination, but he presented plenty of evidence that Oswald was only used as a patsy, which is what Oswald himself said.
    I would not trust that guy on anything!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    Apparently so. I hadn't realized that until just now. I haven't read his book, but from the article I linked to, it looks well worth reading. I did read a good chunk of Jim Marrs' Crossfire a long time ago. I don't recall him being certain who was behind JFK's Assassination, but he presented plenty of evidence that Oswald was only used as a patsy, which is what Oswald himself said.
    Since November '63 nobody yet has proved anyone but
    Oswald was involved
    AM I, I AM's,AM I.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon 2023 View Post
    I would not trust that guy on anything!
    From what I've read, it seems that his explanation is the most likely. However, if you or someone else has read his book and found his evidence wanting, I'd certainly be interested to know what errors you or someone else found. I may even buy the book myself one day to take a look at everything he has to say.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon 2023 View Post
    Since November '63 nobody yet has proved anyone but
    Oswald was involved
    You may well be right in terms of proof. It's generally very hard to prove anything in cases like these. I do believe that Oswald was involved, but only that he was set up to be the patsy.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    You may well be right in terms of proof. It's generally very hard to prove anything in cases like these. I do believe that Oswald was involved, but only that he was set up to be the patsy.
    If someone else was involved, it would have leaked decades ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon 2023 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    You may well be right in terms of proof. It's generally very hard to prove anything in cases like these. I do believe that Oswald was involved, but only that he was set up to be the patsy.
    If someone else was involved, it would have leaked decades ago.
    I believe it did. I can't speak for Roger Stone's book other than the article on it that I linked to previously, but I found Jim Marrs' book Crossfire, originally published in 1989, to be most informative in this regard.
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    I believe it did. I can't speak for Roger Stone's book other than the article on it that I linked to previously, but I found Jim Marrs' book Crossfire, originally published in 1989, to be most informative in this regard.
    The book that changed my mind was Death of a President by William Manchester. He was a top top writer at the time, and Jackie Kennedy asked him to write it.
    He had other great books too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollyon 2023 View Post
    The book that changed my mind was Death of a President by William Manchester. He was a top top writer at the time, and Jackie Kennedy asked him to write it.
    He had other great books too.
    Alright, but that book was published in 1967, long before the Zapruder film of 1975. Jim Marrs had over 20 years longer to find more information on what really happened in his first edition of Crossfire that he published in 1989.

    He also apparently makes a fair amount of mistakes, according some purchasers of the book on Amazon. Some quotes from them:

    **
    Robert Caro's "Passage of Power" tells a totally different story regarding the relationship between the Kennedys and Johnsons, both before and after JFK was elected President. LBJ was a necessary evil for Kennedy to win the election, and was treated as an unnecessary evil as VP, a job "not worth a buck of warm spit"...except "spit" is the less-vulgar version of the aphorism.

    The Manchester book makes the relationship between JFK and LBJ warm and fuzzy, while multiple historians have painted a different picture.

    **

    Source:
    Edited by the Kennedys | Amazon.com


    Here's another:

    **
    Like so many establishment figures of that era, Manchester gets hung up on the window dressing of the Kennedy Era--"Camelot," as they called it in the purple parlance of the time. There's a lot of uninteresting detail here about numerous trivialities that happened that weekend, but the author totally glosses over the truly strange and meaningful events taking place at that time. Manchester ultimately sticks with the three-bullets-and-Oswald untruth perpetrated by the Warren Commission. Most of the world had moved on from that farce by the time Geraldo showed the Zapruder film on national TV in 1975. In that way, Manchester's is a view on the JFK assassination that is stuck in time, a time when the nation still generally believed the government version of events and concerned itself with minutia like Jackie's fashion choices and the majesty of the funeral procession. Time has passed this volume by, and that makes it difficult reading for anyone with more than a cursory knowledge of the Kennedy assassination.
    **

    Source:
    JFK for neophytes, an overlong delve into the superficialities of a turning point in our history | amazon.com

    And another:

    **
    Writing about the dispute over the Single Bullet Theory before the bootlegged release of some autopsy photos and X-rays in the 1970s: "The issue is resolved by the X-rays and photographs which were taken from every conceivable angle during the autopsy on the President's body. Because this material is unsightly it will be unavailable until 1971. However, the author has discussed it with three men who examined it before it was placed under seal. All three carried special professional qualifications. Each was a stranger to the other two. Nevertheless their accounts were identical. The X-rays show no entry wound `below the shoulder,' as argued by [Edward J. Epstein]...the photographs support them in this case - and reveal that the wound was in the neck."

    I don't know which photos these men were looking at, but the one we have available today clearly shows the bullet hole in the upper back below the shoulder, not in the neck.

    **

    Source:
    Entertaining but not always reliable | Amazon.com

    Another:
    **
    Regarding Manchester, Edward Jay Epstein wrote ". . .a more critical test of a historian's probity than his ability to discriminate between the relevant and the irrelevant is his way of coping with material which tends to conflict with his major theses. Does he take such material into proper account, even if that might entail revising or reconstructing his prime argument, or does he simply omit it or disingenuously attempt to discount its significance?" For Manchester, the final was the assassination itself. He flunked. His failure had to do with the number of shots. The Warren Report's second conclusion was "The weight of the evidence indicates that there were three shots fired." Essentially, the Commission concluded that all of the shots were fired from the the southeast corner of the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository and that three empty cartridge cases were found there, so three shots were fired. It admits a weakness in the second half of the inference: the assassin might have come to the Depository with an empty shell in his rifle and fired two shots. Manchester, marching in lockstep with the Commission, echoes this reasoning: "A majority of witnesses say they heard three detonations, and three spent shells were fund in the sniper's perch. . . . And it would have been typical of [Lee Harvey] Oswald's laxity to have come to the warehouse with an expended cartridge in the breech, which would have required removal before he could commence firing." (p. 155) To assess the Commission's reasoning, you'll have to read Chapter III of the Warren Report, "The Shots from the Texas School Book Depository." If you do, you'll find something you won't find in TheDoaP: James Tague. He was standing near the west end of Dealey Plaza, watching the motorcade, when he felt something strike his cheek. He later found a mark on the curb near the place where he stood. Analysis of the mark revealed it contained lead and other elements found in a bullet's core. The Report gave two ways that this mark may have come to be: a fragment from President Kennedy's head wound might have struck the curb, or a bullet fired from the Depository might have struck some object and the core separated from the jacket and went on to strike the curb. The first way is highly unlikely, since the wound was on the right side of President Kennedy's head and the mark was almost directly in front of him. If the mark was created the latter way, at least three shots were fired, since it took at least two shots to wound President Kennedy and Governor Connally. There is no mention of the struck curb or Tague in TheDoaP. It's not because Manchester was sparing with details: he gave the mileage on Oneal's hearse when he left for Parkland Hospital. (p.292. It was exactly nine hundred miles. Yeah, right.) He interviewed Caroline and John's nanny, but not Tague.
    **

    Source:
    The Manchester Monument | Amazon.com

    A final one:
    **
    I had a real problem with this book. This was one of the early books that came out on the Kennedy assassination. In this book Manchester accepts the lone gunman theory. I still can't buy it. There is too much information and too many books to the contrary - even congressional investigations. My opinion is that the national crisis and Manchester's friendship with the Kennedy family influenced his history. The entire Kennedy family has been mysteriously quiet on this subject. I have my own theory as to why. I am sorry, but I just don't believe his account. I don't consider this work up to Manchester's standards or ethics.
    **

    Source:
    The Hobo Philosopher | Amazon.com
    "Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it" - Andre Gide

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