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Thread: American presidents who were war criminals

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    Default American presidents who were war criminals

    My rankings in order of number of civilians murdered

    1. Abraham Lincoln
    Allowed and approved of Sherman's March to the Sea.

    2. Lyndon Johnson
    Starting the Vietnam war under false pretenses... the Gulf of Tonkin "incident".

    3. FDR
    (see post 4)

    4. Harry Truman
    Could have forewarned Hirohito of what the atomic bomb was capable of by demonstrating it before
    using it on innocent civilians and given H. a chance to surrender.

    5.George W. Bush
    Starting the Iraq operation under false pretenses

    6. Barack Obama
    Allowed his Sect. of State with zero foreign policy experience to convince him to politically destroy a
    sovereign nation which is FUBARed to this day.

    Dishonorable mention:

    Dick Nixon
    For pardoning reducing Lt. William Calley's sentence

    Note: I rank Lincoln ahead of Johnson because we don't know accurately the number of vietnamese civilians Americans murdered
    Last edited by anonymoose; 12-07-2022 at 10:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    My rankings in order of number of civilians murdered

    1. Abraham Lincoln
    Allowed and approved of Sherman's March to the Sea.

    2. Lyndon Johnson
    Starting the Vietnam war under false pretenses... the Gulf of Tonkin "incident".

    3. Harry Truman
    Could have forewarned Hirohito of what the atomic bomb was capable of by demonstrating it before
    using it on innocent civilians and given H. a chance to surrender.

    4 .George W. Bush
    Starting the Iraq operation under false pretenses

    5. Barack Obama
    Allowed his Sect. of State with zero foreign policy experience to convince him to politically destroy a
    sovereign nation which is FUBARed to this day.

    6. Dick Nixon
    For pardoning Lt. William Calley.

    Note: I rank Lincoln ahead of Johnson because we don't know accurately the number of vietnamese civilians Americans murdered.
    I don't think Calley was pardoned. Nixon reduced his sentence.

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    anonymoose (12-07-2022)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    I don't think Calley was pardoned. Nixon reduced his sentence.
    Ok, I'll take him off my list and give him a dishonorable mention.
    If you can think of any other presidents that should make the list, it would be appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    My rankings in order of number of civilians murdered

    1. Abraham Lincoln
    Allowed and approved of Sherman's March to the Sea.

    2. Lyndon Johnson
    Starting the Vietnam war under false pretenses... the Gulf of Tonkin "incident".

    3. Harry Truman
    Could have forewarned Hirohito of what the atomic bomb was capable of by demonstrating it before
    using it on innocent civilians and given H. a chance to surrender.

    4 .George W. Bush
    Starting the Iraq operation under false pretenses

    5. Barack Obama
    Allowed his Sect. of State with zero foreign policy experience to convince him to politically destroy a
    sovereign nation which is FUBARed to this day.

    6. Dick Nixon
    For pardoning Lt. William Calley.

    Note: I rank Lincoln ahead of Johnson because we don't know accurately the number of vietnamese civilians Americans murdered.
    1) Strange that you exclude, FDR's approving of the fire bombing of numerous German and - especially - Japanese cities?
    For instance, FAR more people died during the bombing of Tokyo on March 9/10 (Operation Meetinghouse) than died during either, nuclear bombing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo

    Plus, most of those that died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki died instantaneously - without suffering at all.
    Whereas, most that died in fire raids, died hideous deaths.
    Through burning to death, impaled by flying debris in the hurricane-force winds or slow asphyxiation in their bunkers as the fires, burned off the oxygen from the air in the cities (and other ways).

    The fire raids (of Germany and Japan) killed/maimed MASSIVELY, greater numbers of innocent people than did the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - combined.
    Yet they did not end the war.
    But just two, atomic bombs...did.

    Plus, Japan military leaders were ordered to murder all of their prisoners if the Home Islands were invaded and/or conquered.
    All of their lives - 120,000(?) might have been saved by the A bomb attacks.
    https://www.theprisonerlist.com/orde...-all-pows.html

    2) And what about Obama's 'double-tap drone strikes'?
    https://scholarship.law.ufl.edu/flr/vol69/iss1/7/
    How were they not war crimes?

    And others:
    https://www.thetoptens.com/leaders/u...ed-war-crimes/
    https://madisonvfp.org/war-criminals...w-reasons-why/
    https://www.grunge.com/139912/actual...ten-away-with/


    But...whatever.
    It's your list.
    Last edited by McRocket; 12-07-2022 at 10:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McRocket View Post
    Strange that you exclude, FDR's approving of the fire bombing of numerous German and - especially - Japanese cities?

    For instance, FAR more people died during the bombing of Tokyo on March 9/10 (Operation Meetinghouse) than died during either, nuclear bombing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo

    Whatever.
    Like I said earlier:
    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    If you can think of any other presidents that should make the list, it would be appreciated.
    Where on that list do you think FDR belongs?
    I will edit it.

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    I'll put FDR at 3.

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    Fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McRocket View Post
    It's your list.
    I'm curious to see other's lists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    Like I said earlier:
    Where on that list do you think FDR belongs?
    I will edit it.
    I had not read any other posts when i replied to your OP.

    If you are making the list based on number of innocent civilians killed?
    It would have to be FDR and the bombing of German/Japanese cities as - I would assume - more died in those raids.
    In total - that America participated in.
    Some where flown just by the British - I believe - over Germany.

    JFK did the Bay of Pigs.
    And he started the entire Vietnam War.
    Though Johnson went NUTS with it.

    Hard to tell.

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    lyndon johnson did not start the vietnam war, though he did greatly expand it.

    I'd also put Bill Clinton in the top 5 simply due to his depraved indifference to Iraqi civilian deaths

    Andrew Jackson probably deserves a very dishonorable mention for the Indian removal act
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    My rankings in order of number of civilians murdered

    1. Abraham Lincoln
    Allowed and approved of Sherman's March to the Sea.

    2. Lyndon Johnson
    Starting the Vietnam war under false pretenses... the Gulf of Tonkin "incident".

    3. FDR
    (see post 4)

    4. Harry Truman
    Could have forewarned Hirohito of what the atomic bomb was capable of by demonstrating it before
    using it on innocent civilians and given H. a chance to surrender.

    5.George W. Bush
    Starting the Iraq operation under false pretenses

    6. Barack Obama
    Allowed his Sect. of State with zero foreign policy experience to convince him to politically destroy a
    sovereign nation which is FUBARed to this day.

    Dishonorable mention:

    Dick Nixon
    For pardoning reducing Lt. William Calley's sentence

    Note: I rank Lincoln ahead of Johnson because we don't know accurately the number of vietnamese civilians Americans murdered
    Lyndon Johnson did not start the war in Viet Nam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floridafan View Post
    Lyndon Johnson did not start the war in Viet Nam.
    Read up on the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. No overt military action before that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    Read up on the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. No overt military action before that.
    The actual beginning of this war was in 1954 or 1955. It was well under way when Johnson escalated, and Nixon escalated even further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floridafan View Post
    The actual beginning of this war was in 1954 or 1955. .
    That was the war of indpendence from France. No overt military action by the U.S. before the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
    Johnson started the u.s. War of Aggression against Vietnam.

    While doubts regarding the perceived second attack have been expressed since 1964, it was not until years later that it was shown conclusively never to have happened
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident
    Last edited by anonymoose; 12-08-2022 at 08:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymoose View Post
    2. Lyndon Johnson
    Starting the Vietnam war under false pretenses... the Gulf of Tonkin "incident".
    The Vietnam War started eight years before Johnson took office...

    https://www.britannica.com/event/Vietnam-War
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