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Thread: The bible

  1. #166 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenyx View Post
    So recently, a poster here who I'm not sure if I should mention the name of given Rule 1 sent me a private message. He reminded me to some extent of a group of friendly Jehova witnesses who spent some time trying to convert me to their religion back when I lived in the state of Yucatan, Mexico. So after a few messages, I find that I couldn't respond to him anymore because his mailbox was full. Perhaps he'll make some space in his mailbox soon and I'll be able to send him my response.

    But in the meantime, I thought I'd basically give my take on the bible here. In essence, I consider it a mix of history and fiction. I doubt I'd ever be able to prove that any of it is fictional, but I also doubt that anyone would be able to prove that all of is the truth, at least to anyone who doesn't just take it on faith.

    Ironically, until reading a book called "The Da Vinci Code", and later watching it as a film, I never really questioned a lot of things that the bible and Christianity said were true. The Da Vinci Code book got the wheels in my mind turning, but it bills itself as a book of fiction, and the movie does as well. What really got me going was when I picked up a copy of one of the books that it used as source material, namely Holy Blood, Holy Grail. Since reading it, I know that it's had its fair share of critics, and even while reading it, there were some passages that I found dubious. Nevertheless, I found it immensely more interesting then what I had previously thought of the bible and christianity as a whole.

    As to my own religion, I've been Pantheist ever since I found out that it essentially mirrored beliefs I'd developed on my own before hearing about it.

    Anyway, some reference links:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da_Vinci_Code

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ho...the_Holy_Grail

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism
    You realize the Da Vinci Code is a work if fiction right?
    "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

    "Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky

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  2. #167 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by America View Post
    I'm going to stop replying to PostmodernProphet because she's clearly in the deep end. You seem somewhat reasonable.

    That being said, I would like to see how you argue against my points about Philo and Mark's depiction of Mary. Also:

    1. Buddha probably didn't exist, either. The earliest stories about him were at least two centuries after his death and they can't even agree on when he lived. (Interestingly, a lot of early Christian writers disagreed on when Jesus lived.)

    2. For the second time, I never claimed that the NT writers invented Jesus from thin air. But there is clearly an evolution of the Jesus myth during the first century. There were oral traditions and various Christian groups had their own version of the Jesus story. There were a lot of conflicting beliefs about Jesus and about Christian doctrine in general, which is attested to by Celsus when he mocked Christians for being unable to agree on even the simplest teachings.

    3. Being a scholar has nothing to do with being employed by a "top tier university."

    But you want scholars?

    Ok.

    Robert Price, PhD in theology.



    Richard Carrier, PhD in Ancient History:



    Earl Doherty, BA in Classical Studies.


    Thomas L. Thompson, PhD in Old Testament Studies
    One of them only has a bachelor's degree, two of them aren't even employed at prestigious American universities (they seem to be editors of obscure journals or blogs), and the last is an Old Testament scholar, he's not an expert in the New Testament which is the basis of the historicity of Jesus.

    Moral of the story: your list is not a selection of prestigious New Testament scholars

  3. #168 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    One of them only has a bachelor's degree, two of them aren't even employed at prestigious American universities (they seem to be editors of obscure journals or blogs), and the last is an Old Testament scholar, he's not an expert in the New Testament which is the basis of the historicity of Jesus.

    Moral of the story: your list is not a selection of prestigious New Testament scholars
    Degrees make you smart right? What degree do you possess that gives you the authority to question the intellectual bona fides of others? What "prestigious American university" are you employed by? BTW why does it matter if it's an American university?
    "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

    "Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky

    "Leftists actually think everyone is as stupid as a leftist." - Yakuda

    "No, Trump isn't a fascist, tatt boy." - moon

  4. #169 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuda View Post
    Degrees make you smart right? What degree do you possess that gives you the authority to question the intellectual bona fides of others? What "prestigious American university" are you employed by? BTW why does it matter if it's an American university?
    The issue being discussed is subject matter expertise, not innate intelligence.

    Do you get dental work done from someone with only a highschool degree?

    Would you trust a delicate medical procedure to someone who is a college dropout?

    Would you pay money to someone to do your taxes if they have no training in accounting or tax law?

  5. #170 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The issue being discussed is subject matter expertise, not innate intelligence.

    Do you get dental work done from someone with only a highschool degree?

    Would you trust a delicate medical procedure to someone who is a college dropout?

    Would you pay money to someone to do your taxes if they have no training in accounting or tax law?
    That has nothing to do with what I said.
    "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

    "Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Noam Chomsky

    "Leftists actually think everyone is as stupid as a leftist." - Yakuda

    "No, Trump isn't a fascist, tatt boy." - moon

  6. #171 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuda View Post
    That has nothing to do with what I said.
    Subject matter expertise is what we were discussing in this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by America View Post
    But you want scholars?

    Ok.

    Robert Price, PhD in theology.



    Richard Carrier, PhD in Ancient History:



    Earl Doherty, BA in Classical Studies.


    Thomas L. Thompson, PhD in Old Testament Studies
    sweet.....names......now pick one, quote one of his claims and we'll test the waters to see if he knows what tgh fuck he's talking about.....
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    It's fair to say that this discussion is over. The believers can't address even the simplest arguments made and simply rehash evangelical talking points.

  9. #174 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by America View Post
    But you want scholars?

    Ok.

    Robert Price, PhD in theology.



    Richard Carrier, PhD in Ancient History:



    Earl Doherty, BA in Classical Studies.


    Thomas L. Thompson, PhD in Old Testament Studies
    sweet.....names......now pick one, quote one of his claims and we'll test the waters to see if he knows what tgh fuck he's talking about.....

    maybe this one.....

    Thompson also argues that the resurrection of Jesus is taken directly from the story of the dying and rising god, Dionysus.
    gosh you may be right.....that's certainly the way I remember the Passion of Christ......

    At the direction of Hera, the infant Zagreus/Dionysus was torn to pieces, cooked, and eaten by the evil Titans. But his heart was saved by Athena, and he (now Dionysus) was resurrected by Zeus through Semele. Zeus struck the Titans with lightning, and they were consumed by fire. From their ashes came the first humans, who thus possessed both the evil nature of the Titans and the divine nature of the gods.
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Dionysus

    or was it this version of the Dionysus myth you were referring to?......

    In the second legend, the pregnant Semele was pestering Zeus to acknowledge his paternity. He got mad and killed her with a lightning bolt. Then he salvaged the fetus, sewed it to his own thigh in an early allograft procedure, and brought it to term.
    https://www.quora.com/How-was-the-re...-with-Dionysus
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

  10. #175 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by America View Post
    It's fair to say that this discussion is over. The believers can't address even the simplest arguments made and simply rehash evangelical talking points.
    I generally don't have the inclination or interest to offer extensive refutations of Holly Rollers attempts to discredit evolution, or the attempts of militant atheists to deny the historicity of Jesus.

    My only goal is to show that the Jesus myth is promoted by lower tier bloggers and authors who typically are not well thought of enough to have secured scholarly faculty positions at prestigious universities.

    Reputable religious historians and New Testament scholars who actually have tenured faculty positions almost to a man and woman believe the documentary evidence is overwhelming for a historical Jewish mystic from Galilee named Jesus living in the first century CE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    not sure what your issue is........Jesus is God, so either way the statement is true.......
    Jesus is God, and had always been God.... According to one Gospel - John.

  12. #177 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMode View Post
    Jesus is God, and had always been God.... According to one Gospel - John.
    Did Jesus us his divinity to defeat sin? If you think he did what kind of victory was that?
    IMPEACH 46 FOR TREASON
    Biden/Harris 2024
    IT'S A NO BRAINER!


  13. #178 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I generally don't have the inclination or interest to offer extensive refutations of Holly Rollers attempts to discredit evolution, or the attempts of militant atheists to deny the historicity of Jesus.

    My only goal is to show that the Jesus myth is promoted by lower tier bloggers and authors who typically are not well thought of enough to have secured scholarly faculty positions at prestigious universities.

    Reputable religious historians and New Testament scholars who actually have tenured faculty positions almost to a man and woman believe the documentary evidence is overwhelming for a historical Jewish mystic from Galilee named Jesus living in the first century CE.
    That is a bigoted term.
    IMPEACH 46 FOR TREASON
    Biden/Harris 2024
    IT'S A NO BRAINER!


  14. #179 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressLane View Post
    That is a bigoted term.
    I don't remember Holly.....was she a sister to Rebecca?....
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

  15. #180 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    I don't remember Holly.....was she a sister to Rebecca?....
    Adopted sister.
    IMPEACH 46 FOR TREASON
    Biden/Harris 2024
    IT'S A NO BRAINER!


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