Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 65

Thread: The salvation experience has always puzzled me

  1. #1 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default The salvation experience has always puzzled me

    When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

    So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?

    Is it psychological? Mass hysteria and delusion can be eliminated because it was pretty much one to one prayer, despite other deaf kids being involved in groups with other counselors.

    Is it the music? That can be eliminated because it was a deaf camp. But it is unmistakable that music does have a range of influence on people, especially the easily swayed.

    So that leaves at least two possibilities: it was a genuine experience or I was sprayed with some kind of chemicals.

    Now on to the megachurches. James Randi have exposed the megachurches and the televangelists for the frauds they are.

    He has discovered and exposed their multiple techniques for swaying the audience.

    A few examples: Have attendants fill up a card explaining their situations, heavy music that can easily influence them, possibly combined with low frequency harmonics (see MKUltra), have few "helpers" who pretend to be a part of the audience and so on. That's a few off of the top of my head.

    Now to the nexus of my question/point about the experience. As I have stated, a lot of them can be eliminated with me.

    The reason why I thought about this is because I had a dream one night where I went with a friend to her favorite new church. We were sitting there like they normally would. Listening, singing, pastor hollering and so on.

    Blah, blah, blah. Then all of sudden I was struck with the experience of being drugged up. I looked around and those people were giddy as hell. They would believe anything and would laugh at everything. I looked at my friend and she looked at me and laughed. The most happiest crowd ever!

    I was like whoa! What the hell was that?

    So it got me thinking. Hmm maybe they use some kind of chemicals. Not unheard of in the covert projects, especially the CIA and their mind control projects.

    It might sound far fetched, but is it?

    That's really brilliant way to control the masses and make billions out of it. Keep them in power.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to AProudLefty For This Post:

    Tranquillus in Exile (11-15-2022)

  3. #2 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    38,038
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 18,926 Times in 13,193 Posts
    Groans
    3
    Groaned 832 Times in 791 Posts

    Default

    I remember James "The Amazing" Randi. I actually got to see him perform "psychic surgery" live. He was in Arizona as an expert witness in a case involving a Mexican man who was doing that in Phoenix. The state charged him with the deaths of several of his "patients" and for practicing medicine without a license. His defense was he was performing religious miracles.

    Sitting say ten feet from Randi who was doing his thing on a member of the small audience, it sure looked real, but it was all a magic trick. I thought it was funny when he tried to spray those closest with 'blood.' It didn't quite reach them, however.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to T. A. Gardner For This Post:

    AProudLefty (11-16-2022)

  5. #3 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    23,532
    Thanks
    3,066
    Thanked 9,766 Times in 7,268 Posts
    Groans
    49
    Groaned 1,060 Times in 1,005 Posts

    Default

    Don't obsess over salvation.

    If you were born on this pigshit planet, it's already too late.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

  6. #4 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    57,786
    Thanks
    35,471
    Thanked 50,287 Times in 27,095 Posts
    Groans
    22
    Groaned 2,975 Times in 2,692 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

    So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?.
    Sounds like a neurochemical response to me.

    But spiritual liberation or salvation is undoubtedly real, as far as I'm concerned. In the arc of human history, millions of Buddhists, Daoists, Christians, Hindus, Jews have experienced a freedom from illusion, from fear, from desire, experienced a vision of moral truth and transcendence.

    Even in the Gulag, Solzhenitsyn experienced a type of spiritual liberation. Boethius freed himself from illusion and percieved a higher truth even as he was chained in a dungeon. I don't think that type of transcendence is just a neurochemical response.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Cypress For This Post:

    AProudLefty (11-15-2022)

  8. #5 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Sounds like a neurochemical response to me.

    But spiritual liberation or salvation is undoubtedly real, as far as I'm concerned. In the arc of human history, millions of Buddhists, Daoists, Christians, Hindus, Jews have experienced a freedom from illusion, from fear, from desire, experienced a vision of moral truth and transcendence.

    Even in the Gulag, Solzhenitsyn experienced a type of spiritual liberation. Boethius freed himself from illusion and percieved a higher truth even as he was chained in a dungeon. I don't think that type of transcendence is just a neurochemical response.
    I have never experienced that at any point in my life except that one.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to AProudLefty For This Post:

    Cypress (11-16-2022)

  10. #6 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,685
    Thanks
    6,597
    Thanked 12,131 Times in 9,660 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

    So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?

    Is it psychological? Mass hysteria and delusion can be eliminated because it was pretty much one to one prayer, despite other deaf kids being involved in groups with other counselors.

    Is it the music? That can be eliminated because it was a deaf camp. But it is unmistakable that music does have a range of influence on people, especially the easily swayed.

    So that leaves at least two possibilities: it was a genuine experience or I was sprayed with some kind of chemicals.

    Now on to the megachurches. James Randi have exposed the megachurches and the televangelists for the frauds they are.

    He has discovered and exposed their multiple techniques for swaying the audience.

    A few examples: Have attendants fill up a card explaining their situations, heavy music that can easily influence them, possibly combined with low frequency harmonics (see MKUltra), have few "helpers" who pretend to be a part of the audience and so on. That's a few off of the top of my head.

    Now to the nexus of my question/point about the experience. As I have stated, a lot of them can be eliminated with me.

    The reason why I thought about this is because I had a dream one night where I went with a friend to her favorite new church. We were sitting there like they normally would. Listening, singing, pastor hollering and so on.

    Blah, blah, blah. Then all of sudden I was struck with the experience of being drugged up. I looked around and those people were giddy as hell. They would believe anything and would laugh at everything. I looked at my friend and she looked at me and laughed. The most happiest crowd ever!

    I was like whoa! What the hell was that?

    So it got me thinking. Hmm maybe they use some kind of chemicals. Not unheard of in the covert projects, especially the CIA and their mind control projects.

    It might sound far fetched, but is it?

    That's really brilliant way to control the masses and make billions out of it. Keep them in power.
    god is real.

    i've had too many experiences to deny it.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Hermes Thoth For This Post:

    Stone (11-18-2022)

  12. #7 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2023
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    7,863
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 2,151 Times in 1,573 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 156 Times in 143 Posts

    Default

    This often happens to people who just become saved and it’s completely psychological.

  13. #8 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Ravenhenge in the Northwoods
    Posts
    88,298
    Thanks
    145,713
    Thanked 82,524 Times in 52,741 Posts
    Groans
    1
    Groaned 4,657 Times in 4,376 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

    So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?

    Is it psychological? Mass hysteria and delusion can be eliminated because it was pretty much one to one prayer, despite other deaf kids being involved in groups with other counselors.

    Is it the music? That can be eliminated because it was a deaf camp. But it is unmistakable that music does have a range of influence on people, especially the easily swayed.

    So that leaves at least two possibilities: it was a genuine experience or I was sprayed with some kind of chemicals.

    Now on to the megachurches. James Randi have exposed the megachurches and the televangelists for the frauds they are.

    He has discovered and exposed their multiple techniques for swaying the audience.

    A few examples: Have attendants fill up a card explaining their situations, heavy music that can easily influence them, possibly combined with low frequency harmonics (see MKUltra), have few "helpers" who pretend to be a part of the audience and so on. That's a few off of the top of my head.

    Now to the nexus of my question/point about the experience. As I have stated, a lot of them can be eliminated with me.

    The reason why I thought about this is because I had a dream one night where I went with a friend to her favorite new church. We were sitting there like they normally would. Listening, singing, pastor hollering and so on.

    Blah, blah, blah. Then all of sudden I was struck with the experience of being drugged up. I looked around and those people were giddy as hell. They would believe anything and would laugh at everything. I looked at my friend and she looked at me and laughed. The most happiest crowd ever!

    I was like whoa! What the hell was that?

    So it got me thinking. Hmm maybe they use some kind of chemicals. Not unheard of in the covert projects, especially the CIA and their mind control projects.

    It might sound far fetched, but is it?

    That's really brilliant way to control the masses and make billions out of it. Keep them in power.
    Sorry I missed this thread when you first posted it. Caveat: I'm responding to your OP before reading the rest of the posts.

    Have you ever had that rapturous experience since you were a kid? Was the experience in the church with your friend the same?

    I don't know how easy it would be to procure, but nitrous oxide has a similar effect on many people, particularly children.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ThatOwlWoman For This Post:

    AProudLefty (04-30-2023), Frank Apisa (05-01-2023)

  15. #9 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Sorry I missed this thread when you first posted it. Caveat: I'm responding to your OP before reading the rest of the posts.

    Have you ever had that rapturous experience since you were a kid? Was the experience in the church with your friend the same?

    I don't know how easy it would be to procure, but nitrous oxide has a similar effect on many people, particularly children.
    I never felt that way again except possibly when getting excited about something (except it wasn't the same thing). It was an introduction of something into my body. I attributed it to Jesus entering my heart. I felt like my body was being cleansed and a overwhelming peace permeated my whole body. Me and my friend went outside all excited and discussing it. I can't say if they had the same experience but they did share the same.

    If they did do something, then it's truly evil.

    How long does nitrous oxide have an effect on children?

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to AProudLefty For This Post:

    ThatOwlWoman (04-30-2023)

  17. #10 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Ravenhenge in the Northwoods
    Posts
    88,298
    Thanks
    145,713
    Thanked 82,524 Times in 52,741 Posts
    Groans
    1
    Groaned 4,657 Times in 4,376 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    I never felt that way again except possibly when getting excited about something (except it wasn't the same thing). It was an introduction of something into my body. I attributed it to Jesus entering my heart. I felt like my body was being cleansed and a overwhelming peace permeated my whole body. Me and my friend went outside all excited and discussing it. I can't say if they had the same experience but they did share the same.

    If they did do something, then it's truly evil.

    How long does nitrous oxide have an effect on children?
    Depends on dose and body mass and age, but not too long. When given as sedation it's mixed with O2 so just enough is given to cause relaxation. Some ppl though do have odd hallucinations and sensations. There have been cases where dentists were accused of rapes that never happened, by adults given N2O.

    Did your friend experience some sort of excitement or odd sensations too? Did anyone else you know feel the same? Perhaps you had some neural stimulation -- deep bass, drums -- that your brain interpreted a certain way due to your lack of hearing. I have fascinating visual problems (from AMD) that cause my brain to interpret things in my peripheral visual field that are not possibly real. It's kind of cool, in a depressing-Imma-gonna-be-blind-should-I-live-so-long way.

    I'm NOT saying you were drugged at all. I don't know how big the room was or how many ppl were present but it would be cost prohibitive even then to pump a church full of laughing gas.

    Maybe you did have some sort of spiritual experience. When you think about it, does it still give you joy?
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

  18. #11 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Depends on dose and body mass and age, but not too long. When given as sedation it's mixed with O2 so just enough is given to cause relaxation. Some ppl though do have odd hallucinations and sensations. There have been cases where dentists were accused of rapes that never happened, by adults given N2O.

    Did your friend experience some sort of excitement or odd sensations too? Did anyone else you know feel the same? Perhaps you had some neural stimulation -- deep bass, drums -- that your brain interpreted a certain way due to your lack of hearing. I have fascinating visual problems (from AMD) that cause my brain to interpret things in my peripheral visual field that are not possibly real. It's kind of cool, in a depressing-Imma-gonna-be-blind-should-I-live-so-long way.

    I'm NOT saying you were drugged at all. I don't know how big the room was or how many ppl were present but it would be cost prohibitive even then to pump a church full of laughing gas.

    Maybe you did have some sort of spiritual experience. When you think about it, does it still give you joy?
    Well then it must not have been N20 because it wouldn't last that long. I've met some who have experienced the same but that's rare. Usually when I ask people about it, they would say they have not had that experience while being saved.

    As to the music, I would have noticed since I can feel deep vibrations and also I would have noticed it's effect on hearing people at that time.

    What is AMD?

    It was a big church. 100s of deaf kids go to that Christian camp every year. We were required to go to church many times a day... ugh!

    And yes it does give me some kind of joy oddly. I can still feel like. Like a clean feeling.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to AProudLefty For This Post:

    ThatOwlWoman (05-01-2023)

  20. #12 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    27,505
    Thanks
    5,209
    Thanked 7,295 Times in 5,845 Posts
    Groans
    1,263
    Groaned 390 Times in 368 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

    So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?

    Is it psychological? Mass hysteria and delusion can be eliminated because it was pretty much one to one prayer, despite other deaf kids being involved in groups with other counselors.

    Is it the music? That can be eliminated because it was a deaf camp. But it is unmistakable that music does have a range of influence on people, especially the easily swayed.

    So that leaves at least two possibilities: it was a genuine experience or I was sprayed with some kind of chemicals.

    Now on to the megachurches. James Randi have exposed the megachurches and the televangelists for the frauds they are.

    He has discovered and exposed their multiple techniques for swaying the audience.

    A few examples: Have attendants fill up a card explaining their situations, heavy music that can easily influence them, possibly combined with low frequency harmonics (see MKUltra), have few "helpers" who pretend to be a part of the audience and so on. That's a few off of the top of my head.

    Now to the nexus of my question/point about the experience. As I have stated, a lot of them can be eliminated with me.

    The reason why I thought about this is because I had a dream one night where I went with a friend to her favorite new church. We were sitting there like they normally would. Listening, singing, pastor hollering and so on.

    Blah, blah, blah. Then all of sudden I was struck with the experience of being drugged up. I looked around and those people were giddy as hell. They would believe anything and would laugh at everything. I looked at my friend and she looked at me and laughed. The most happiest crowd ever!

    I was like whoa! What the hell was that?

    So it got me thinking. Hmm maybe they use some kind of chemicals. Not unheard of in the covert projects, especially the CIA and their mind control projects.

    It might sound far fetched, but is it?

    That's really brilliant way to control the masses and make billions out of it. Keep them in power.
    Drugs.
    Don't be afraid to see what you see

  21. #13 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    23,253
    Thanks
    13,544
    Thanked 12,185 Times in 7,629 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 1,051 Times in 998 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Sorry I missed this thread when you first posted it. Caveat: I'm responding to your OP before reading the rest of the posts.

    Have you ever had that rapturous experience since you were a kid? Was the experience in the church with your friend the same?

    I don't know how easy it would be to procure, but nitrous oxide has a similar effect on many people, particularly children.
    So does pot.

    Pot smoke has a smell that would have been noticed. But if goodies were served...like brownies, it might have been pot.

    Another thing about pot highs...they are shared with those who are not smoking. The euphoria highs are "contagious."

    When I read the OP...pot was my first thought.
    ON HIS WORST DAY, JOE BIDEN IS A BETTER PRESIDENT THAN TRUMP WAS ON HIS BEST DAY!

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to Frank Apisa For This Post:

    ThatOwlWoman (05-01-2023)

  23. #14 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Ravenhenge in the Northwoods
    Posts
    88,298
    Thanks
    145,713
    Thanked 82,524 Times in 52,741 Posts
    Groans
    1
    Groaned 4,657 Times in 4,376 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Apisa View Post
    So does pot.

    Pot smoke has a smell that would have been noticed. But if goodies were served...like brownies, it might have been pot.

    Another thing about pot highs...they are shared with those who are not smoking. The euphoria highs are "contagious."

    When I read the OP...pot was my first thought.
    That's a plausible explanation too. Also LSD. Some while ago there was a discussion here about acid, and some members related their experiences with it. Some of the descriptions sound a lot like what Lefty posted... including sharing the same visual hallucinations.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

  24. #15 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Ravenhenge in the Northwoods
    Posts
    88,298
    Thanks
    145,713
    Thanked 82,524 Times in 52,741 Posts
    Groans
    1
    Groaned 4,657 Times in 4,376 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Well then it must not have been N20 because it wouldn't last that long. I've met some who have experienced the same but that's rare. Usually when I ask people about it, they would say they have not had that experience while being saved.

    As to the music, I would have noticed since I can feel deep vibrations and also I would have noticed it's effect on hearing people at that time.

    What is AMD?

    It was a big church. 100s of deaf kids go to that Christian camp every year. We were required to go to church many times a day... ugh!

    And yes it does give me some kind of joy oddly. I can still feel like. Like a clean feeling.
    Then IMO you had a positive experience that has stayed with you your whole life. Do you consider yourself a Christian at this point?

    AMD = age-related macular degeneration. It runs in our family. My sister (3 years younger than me) has it pretty badly; she has to get injections into her eyeballs. She has trouble reading and can only drive in areas where she knows the roads because she has trouble with signs. I'm not sure how she manages to pass the driving test. Mine isn't really noticeable except for those odd visual anomalies.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

Similar Threads

  1. Salvation
    By Peace n Safety in forum General Politics Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-29-2020, 06:26 PM
  2. How many JPP leftists hate the Salvation Army?
    By canceled.2021.2 in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-19-2019, 07:24 AM
  3. I am always puzzled by days like today
    By canceled.2021.1 in forum Off Topic Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-17-2014, 04:55 PM
  4. Salvation Army Donation request
    By Canceled.2014.1 in forum Off Topic Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-24-2012, 09:59 AM
  5. salvation army a charity
    By Robdawg in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-20-2007, 01:06 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •