EU sees sabotage of Nord Stream, warns against attacks on 'active infrastructure'

[T. A. Gardner]

The real question is Who carried out the attack? It had to be a government entity almost certainly. Nobody else could have found the pipeline on the bottom of the sea, planted charges so precisely, then broken the pipeline.

To do this undetected means the perp had access to a modern submarine, modern ROV underwater vessels, and powerful explosive charges. That pretty much rules out Ukraine. So, who did this?

[ExpressLane]

Maybe. But it happened at the bottom of the ocean, and Russia will be the lead investigator.

If they used a surface ship to get there then perhaps we will see them. But agree if Russia is the investigator Ukraine will get the blame no matter who did it.

[Celticguy]

It could be that Russia is using this for political cover, ... as an "excuse" not to reopen the lines.

they've been fine using phoney balony excuses so far. the last thing they need to do is something that costs real money to fix AND leak fuel that cannot be recaptured.

[Hawkeye10]

I don't think Ukraine would undermine and sabotage its NATO allies.

There's going to be lots of theories, ... and we'll never know the real truth.

Then you are not paying attention, they are sure that they are owed, and they are corrupt pricks.

[ExpressLane]

The real question is Who carried out the attack? It had to be a government entity almost certainly. Nobody else could have found the pipeline on the bottom of the sea, planted charges so precisely, then broken the pipeline.

To do this undetected means the perp had access to a modern submarine, modern ROV underwater vessels, and powerful explosive charges. That pretty much rules out Ukraine. So, who did this?

Tucker made an argument for the US being a suspect. It would have been easy peasy for the seals to do it. I'm skeptical however. I personally think it's a false flag attack. Putin rose to power using a false flag attack.

[Hawkeye10]

Tucker made an argument for the US being a suspect. It would have been easy peasy for the seals to do it. I'm skeptical however. I personally think it's a false flag attack. Putin rose to power using a false flag attack.

But what a horrible thing this would be to do to our alleged allies, Germany and Europe.

They should get to decide.

[T. A. Gardner]

Tucker made an argument for the US being a suspect. It would have been easy peasy for the seals to do it. I'm skeptical however. I personally think it's a false flag attack. Putin rose to power using a false flag attack.

I wouldn't go that far. I also looked at a chart of the Baltic after posting, and saw that where the pipeline was cut was a depth of only about 20 to 30 meters. That's reachable by just about any diver. A good fishing sonar could likely find the pipeline at that depth. That means the perp(s) pool got a lot larger. Putin gains nothing from an attack on the line as he could simply cut off supply at the source.

It's likely a third party, and the question remains, who?

[Hawkeye10]

Remember that China's top argument is that America is such a thug nation that we must be removed from power, we have through bad acts lost our right to lead.

[ExpressLane]

I wouldn't go that far. I also looked at a chart of the Baltic after posting, and saw that where the pipeline was cut was a depth of only about 20 to 30 meters. That's reachable by just about any diver. A good fishing sonar could likely find the pipeline at that depth. That means the perp(s) pool got a lot larger. Putin gains nothing from an attack on the line as he could simply cut off supply at the source.

It's likely a third party, and the question remains, who?

Putin gains if he can blame the sabotage on Ukraine. And he can repair the damage at that depth fairly easily. He had committed to shutting the pipeline down and the loss of the gas is nothing in the big scheme of things. Could be that Putin thinks the loss was worth being able to blame Ukraine for Europe's having no heat this winter. That may make the EU less likely to support Ukraine. It would have been easy peasy for the Russian navy to do.

[Bigdog]

they've been fine using phoney balony excuses so far. the last thing they need to do is something that costs real money to fix AND leak fuel that cannot be recaptured.

Valid point. But I think they'll make Europe pay for the repairs, if Europe really wants the pipelines working, again. The Russians shut NS1 down, making them both useless pieces of junk anyway.

[Bigdog]

I wouldn't go that far. I also looked at a chart of the Baltic after posting, and saw that where the pipeline was cut was a depth of only about 20 to 30 meters. That's reachable by just about any diver. A good fishing sonar could likely find the pipeline at that depth. That means the perp(s) pool got a lot larger. Putin gains nothing from an attack on the line as he could simply cut off supply at the source.

It's likely a third party, and the question remains, who?

That's much more shallow than I assumed. It does drastically widen the circle of suspects.

[Bigdog]

From one possible perspective, Putin has been amassing bargaining chips ... that he can exchange to get the Crimea internationally recognized as part of Russia.

[Hawkeye10]

From one possible perspective, Putin has been amassing bargaining chips ... that he can exchange to get the Crimea internationally recognized as part of Russia.

Putin Has The New Chinese Empire in his corner.

"Our friendship is without limits"

[moon]

who stands to gain from this ?

russia can just shut off the spigot so why cause damage they have to fix ?

We're already seeing it as a propaganda rod to beat the Russians with.

I'm not sure if the Zelenskies had the means to mine the pipes- but I don't doubt for a moment that any NATO local would have done it on their behalf- after clearing it with the boss in Washington, of course.

The outcome, as I see it, is that the threat of EU countries succumbing to the Russian temptations of a renewed and cheap supply has been removed. They are being chained to the NATO insanity.

[Hawkeye10]

We're already seeing it as a propaganda rod to beat the Russians with.

I'm not sure if the Zelenskies had the means to mine the pipes- but I don't doubt for a moment that any NATO local would have done it on their behalf- after clearing it with the boss in Washington, of course.

The outcome, as I see it, is that the threat of EU countries succumbing to the Russian temptations of a renewed and cheap supply has been removed. They are being chained to the NATO insanity.

The Chinese could not be more thrilled.