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Thread: Russians react to Vlad's mobilization order

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Israel invaded Palestine. Palestine did not invade Israel.
    Da Jews, Da Jews.

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    LyingFish
    Da Jews, Da Jews.

    Zionists, you Jew-hating s.o.b.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Several of the folks in the video said they would be happy to serve if they get drafted. An old man was saying he'd send his son and serve himself if he could...

    The folks in the video did not universally condemn the idea.
    I know that >

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The thing that struck me was the difference in the quality of answers between people who were anti-war, and those who, on camera at least, were nominally pro war.

    The antiwar people had compelling moral reasons and clear convictions.

    The pro war people didn't really seem to have their heart in the answer, and they responded with meaningless platitudes like protecting the honor of Russia, deferring to Putin's judgment, or half hearted comments about maybe wanting to fight.

    I specifically posted a video with a range of viewpoints because it would be dishonest to pretend everyone in Russia actively opposes the war

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post




    I specifically posted a video with a range of viewpoints because it would be dishonest to pretend everyone in Russia actively opposes the war
    ' Dishonest ' ?



    Haw, haw, haw, haw, haw............................haw, haw..............................haw.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

  5. #125 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I know that >




    I specifically posted a video with a range of viewpoints because it would be dishonest to pretend everyone in Russia actively opposes the war
    I would say that half of the folks against it had no compelling reason to be against it other than they didn't want to. One lady just mentioned she had kids as if that is some moral value, and then platitudes about "political games".

    The reality is many folks do not like being compelled to serve in the military and those folks you believe are "moral" while those who do want to serve you say serve up "platitudes"...

    I say both sides served up platitudes. Like most folks they start with an opinion and then try to fit an argument around it.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    There was no map .. Your willful ignorance is sickening
    So by carefully reading your cut and paste, we find that there was, in fact, a map and by the final rounds of negotiating, the map part had been settled.

    The part Arafat wouldn't budge on wasn't the map or division of territories, but rather the recognition of the Israeli state.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    I would say that half of the folks against it had no compelling reason to be against it other than they didn't want to. One lady just mentioned she had kids as if that is some moral value, and then platitudes about "political games".

    The reality is many folks do not like being compelled to serve in the military and those folks you believe are "moral" while those who do want to serve you say serve up "platitudes"...

    I say both sides served up platitudes. Like most folks they start with an opinion and then try to fit an argument around it.
    Nice of you to admit I openly and transparently choose a video to represent all view points, after you composed your 'gotcha' post.


    The lady with the kids indicated she didn't want her family to be pawns of any political games. That is a more compelling moral position than anything that pro war rubes said. And what she openly said could even be considered risky in Putin's police state.

    The other anti war people said they would rather go to prison than fight for Putin's government, or that war is not the answer to resolving problems in the 21st century.

    It is actually amazing that you would insinuate those answers do not have a stronger moral foundation than the guy who claimed to be an Uber patriot, or the guy who says he just trusts whatever Putin says

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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    So by carefully reading your cut and paste, we find that there was, in fact, a map and by the final rounds of negotiating, the map part had been settled.

    The part Arafat wouldn't budge on wasn't the map or division of territories, but rather the recognition of the Israeli state.
    Finally, and contrary to Dershowitz’s claim, there was no ‘second map’ or map of a ‘final proposal at Camp David’. Indeed, it is explicitly stated in a note beside the map published in Ross’s memoirs that ‘no map was presented during the final rounds at Camp David.’ Given all this, it is not surprising that Barak’s foreign minister, Shlomo Ben-Ami, who was a key participant at Camp David, later admitted: ‘If I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David as well.’

    http://www.irmep.org/mw_letter.htm
    ' No map ' means ' No map '.

    Barak’s foreign minister, Shlomo Ben-Ami, who was a key participant at Camp David, later admitted: ‘If I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David as well.’
    Barak’s foreign minister, Shlomo Ben-Ami and Arafat were, therefore, in agreement. The ' deal ' stank. Quit trying to blame Arafat for rejecting your stinking deal.

    Oh yes- and get out of Palestine.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    ' No map ' means ' No map '.
    No, it means no second map.


    Barak’s foreign minister, Shlomo Ben-Ami and Arafat were, therefore, in agreement. The ' deal ' stank. Quit trying to blame Arafat for rejecting your stinking deal.
    The Palestinians will never be offered a deal that good ever again.

    Israeli $$$ used to build the Palestinian economy, free travel between the territories, recognition of the Palestinian state, land exchanges within Israel.

    Never will be offered again. That was the best chance the Palestinians had to compromise.

    Instead, they launched an intifada that ended any chance of peace with Israel and statehood.

    There will never, ever be a Palestinian state now because of the intifada.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    No, it means no second map.
    The first map being rejected- or it would have become essential to further discussion.

    The Zionist experiment will fail. Israel is an apartheid state , barely legitimate in law. Ethnic cleansing is illegal. The squats are illegal under the Geneva Conventions. You do not have a moral leg to stand upon.
    Palestine will gain full recognition with the coming Latino revolution in US government. The age of the Christian Zionist hasn't long left to run.

    Arafat was a good leader. He would never have rejected an honest deal. The Israelis are, notoriously, underhand.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    The first map being rejected- or it would have become essential to further discussion.
    It wasn't rejected, and it wasn't what Arafat killed the deal over; that was recognition of Israel's statehood.

    Arafat didn't want to recognize Israel's right to exist even though Israel would have recognized a Palestinian state and built it up with Israeli money.

    As I said before, the Palestinians will never be offered a deal that good again; Israel is just gonna run out the clock until all the displaced Palestinians die off. Their kids will not have any claim to anything in Israel.


    The Zionist experiment will fail. Israel is an apartheid state , barely legitimate in law. Ethnic cleansing is illegal. The squats are illegal under the Geneva Conventions. You do not have a moral leg to stand upon.
    Palestine will gain full recognition with the coming Latino revolution in US government. The age of the Christian Zionist hasn't long left to run.
    Oh, I completely fucking agree that Israel is an apartheid state, and that they should withdraw from the lands they occupied in 1967, but the Palestinians must also recognize Israel's right to exist. The compromise in 2000 was the best deal anyone could get, and now because of the intifada, that deal will never be offered again.


    Arafat was a good leader. He would never have rejected an honest deal. The Israelis are, notoriously, underhand.
    Arafat was a terrible leader who killed any chance the Palestinians had at statehood by launching the intifada.

    Are the Palestinians any closer to statehood today than they were in 2000? HELL FUCKING NO.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post

    Are the Palestinians any closer to statehood today than they were in 2000? HELL FUCKING NO.
    Get a grip. The Palestinian state was recognized by the UN in 2012- and is recognized by 138 countries today.

    Your home-cooked Camp David narrative is a desperate nonsense. Thanks to Arafat the Palestinian resistance continues today and full recognition is simply a matter of time.

    Israelis would be well advised to fall back behind the lines ascribed to them by UNGAR 181- because they are not entitled to one square inch more.

    UN Recognizes Palestinian stae
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-gene...stinian-state/

    If there was a vote to recognize Israel today the fascist entity would be dissolved.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Get a grip. The Palestinian state was recognized by the UN in 2012- and is recognized by 138 countries today.
    Yeah, but not by the one that actually matters here.

    They could have had exactly what the UN general assembly resolved 12 years earlier PLUS Israeli $$ to build their economy had they accepted the proposal.

    So they're no closer to statehood now than before the intifada...in fact, they're farther away from it because their violence didn't achieve any of the goals they thought it would.
    When I die, turn me into a brick and use me to cave in the skull of a fascist


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Nice of you to admit I openly and transparently choose a video to represent all view points, after you composed your 'gotcha' post.


    The lady with the kids indicated she didn't want her family to be pawns of any political games. That is a more compelling moral position than anything that pro war rubes said. And what she openly said could even be considered risky in Putin's police state.

    The other anti war people said they would rather go to prison than fight for Putin's government, or that war is not the answer to resolving problems in the 21st century.

    It is actually amazing that you would insinuate those answers do not have a stronger moral foundation than the guy who claimed to be an Uber patriot, or the guy who says he just trusts whatever Putin says
    Considering my first post in this thread was not directed at you and was a simple observation based on what folks were saying in the thread, your sudden interest in me 'admitting' something that I never suggested otherwise has missed any target that existed.

    My second post was more towards you because you had quoted me, and I responded to your opinion of "platitudes" being displayed only by those who agreed with the war. You know the ones that agreed to put their life on the line. As I stated. You want one to be a "moral" stand and the other to be empty. Both are empty until the decision becomes real. We do know from our Vietnam war that there are a number that will leave and/or choose prison before showing up, but we also know that many who do not really want the war will show up and do their duty...


    Now, we can start getting into the agenda of the folks who created the video. Basically, it's like watching Jimmy Fallon ask questions of folks "on the street"... While they are on the street, if they do not speak to the agenda of the person making the video they do not get included in the editors cuts. You know those videos that make it look like all college kids are stupid and don't know who the President is and other nonsense, they make for uncompelling (but funny) television, but it does not give us any insight into what college kids actually know... and in this case it gives us no real idea of how folks in Russia are thinking, nor does it show that those that agree with you are taking a particularly moral stance while the others who are willing to put their lives on the line are not.

    None of this should be used to assume that I agree with Russia. I do not. Russia signed an agreement when they took the nuclear weapons to help keep Ukraine safe. Every step they made is wrong. I simply point out that platitudes abound on both sides of this argument, including the "I will go to jail" stuff. Until that choice is real it is all platitudes.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    Yeah, but not by the one that actually matters here.

    They could have had exactly what the UN general assembly resolved 12 years earlier PLUS Israeli $$ to build their economy had they accepted the proposal.

    So they're no closer to statehood now than before the intifada...in fact, they're farther away from it because their violence didn't achieve any of the goals they thought it would.
    The Palestinians have massive support around the world. They would not have if they had succumbed to the prosemitic nonsense of Camp David. There was not even a map. Israel has reneged on all of its ' promises ' anyway. The Palestinian state is recognized , supported- and the Internet has overcome the falsehoods dished up by the Zionist media over decades- although you are still trying to peddle them.

    Today, every Zionist crime is recorded and stored towards the day when Israel's war criminals meet Justice. The evidence is massive. Only US complicity keeps Zionism alive.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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