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Thread: Reality check for TOP GUN fans.

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    Default Reality check for TOP GUN fans.

    As they say, the more you know.




    When most of us think about “Top Gun,” we usually associate it with Tom Cruise’s character during the ’80s movie showcasing the Navy’s F-14 Tomcat exploits and over-the-top maneuvers. But in reality, it was a Tuskegee Airmen who took part and won the military’s first “Top Gun” style competition The United States Air Force held their “First Ever” Weapons Meet at Las Vegas Air Force Base, Nevada on 2 May 1949. The famous 332nd Fighter Group Team, of Captain Alva Temple, 1st Lieutenant Harry Stewart, 1st Lieutenant James Harvey and alternate pilot 1st Lieutenant Halbert Alexander won the Competition. However, the 332nd Fighter Group was never recognized as the “Winner” until April 1995. Forty-Six years after winning the Weapons Meet.





    https://taichicago.org/americas-first-top-guns/
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    If the F-35 gets into a dog fight then it is going to die.....the Top Gun school no longer has a reason to exist.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    As they say, the more you know.




    When most of us think about “Top Gun,” we usually associate it with Tom Cruise’s character during the ’80s movie showcasing the Navy’s F-14 Tomcat exploits and over-the-top maneuvers. But in reality, it was a Tuskegee Airmen who took part and won the military’s first “Top Gun” style competition The United States Air Force held their “First Ever” Weapons Meet at Las Vegas Air Force Base, Nevada on 2 May 1949. The famous 332nd Fighter Group Team, of Captain Alva Temple, 1st Lieutenant Harry Stewart, 1st Lieutenant James Harvey and alternate pilot 1st Lieutenant Halbert Alexander won the Competition. However, the 332nd Fighter Group was never recognized as the “Winner” until April 1995. Forty-Six years after winning the Weapons Meet.





    https://taichicago.org/americas-first-top-guns/
    Fascinating.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    The "Top Gun" of today is far different than anything you would've sen in 1949.

    The constricts of the "Weapons Meet" were far less grueling than what Top Gun pilots put up with today...
    Life is better when you live it on your own terms...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Street Glider View Post
    The "Top Gun" of today is far different than anything you would've sen in 1949.

    The constricts of the "Weapons Meet" were far less grueling than what Top Gun pilots put up with today...
    The POINT of the OP is that when all this STARTED, black folk won a fair & square contest ... and folk of your mindset wouldn't give them their full credit due out of sheer racist spite.

    Those who know NOTHING beyond their own birthdays ASSUMED that the movie was the full, valid history of TOP GUN as it implied. Fact is, it wasn't.

    What you say here are essentially moot points that DO NOT alter the implications and FACTS of the OP one iota. Deal with it.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    As they say, the more you know.




    When most of us think about “Top Gun,” we usually associate it with Tom Cruise’s character during the ’80s movie showcasing the Navy’s F-14 Tomcat exploits and over-the-top maneuvers. But in reality, it was a Tuskegee Airmen who took part and won the military’s first “Top Gun” style competition The United States Air Force held their “First Ever” Weapons Meet at Las Vegas Air Force Base, Nevada on 2 May 1949. The famous 332nd Fighter Group Team, of Captain Alva Temple, 1st Lieutenant Harry Stewart, 1st Lieutenant James Harvey and alternate pilot 1st Lieutenant Halbert Alexander won the Competition. However, the 332nd Fighter Group was never recognized as the “Winner” until April 1995. Forty-Six years after winning the Weapons Meet.





    https://taichicago.org/americas-first-top-guns/
    You are getting things confused.

    Top Gun in the movie refers to The United States Navy Fighter Weapons School.
    It is not a competition per se.
    But a school to teach pilots about air combat tactics.
    And it was established in 1969.

    It did not exist in 1949.
    So I do not know what contest you are speaking of that this poor fellow did not get recognition for.
    But it was NOT Top Gun that is referred to in the film of the same name.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ructor_program

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    Quote Originally Posted by McRocket View Post
    When most of us think about “Top Gun,” we usually associate it with Tom Cruise’s character during the ’80s movie showcasing the Navy’s F-14 Tomcat exploits and over-the-top maneuvers. But in reality, it was a Tuskegee Airmen who took part and won the military’s first “Top Gun” style competition The United States Air Force held their “First Ever” Weapons Meet at Las Vegas Air Force Base, Nevada on 2 May 1949. The famous 332nd Fighter Group Team, of Captain Alva Temple, 1st Lieutenant Harry Stewart, 1st Lieutenant James Harvey and alternate pilot 1st Lieutenant Halbert Alexander won the Competition. However, the 332nd Fighter Group was never recognized as the “Winner” until April 1995. Forty-Six years after winning the Weapons Meet.




    https://taichicago.org/americas-first-top-guns/


    You are getting things confused.

    Top Gun in the movie refers to The United States Navy Fighter Weapons School.
    It is not a competition per se.
    But a school to teach pilots about air combat tactics.
    And it was established in 1969.

    It did not exist in 1949.
    So I do not know what contest you are speaking of that this poor fellow did not get recognition for.
    But it was NOT Top Gun that is referred to in the film of the same name.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ructor_program
    No confusion on my part. I've highlighted parts of my previous post in order to show the reading audience where you are wrong. I would suggest you click the link and read the entire article.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    The POINT of the OP is that when all this STARTED, black folk won a fair & square contest ... and folk of your mindset wouldn't give them their full credit due out of sheer racist spite.

    Those who know NOTHING beyond their own birthdays ASSUMED that the movie was the full, valid history of TOP GUN as it implied. Fact is, it wasn't.

    What you say here are essentially moot points that DO NOT alter the implications and FACTS of the OP one iota. Deal with it.
    Anyone who thinks they are learning history from a Hollywood movie is a fucking moron who needs their HS diploma revoked.

    Speaking of which, there are good movies about the Tuskegee Airmen.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114745/

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0485985/
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    No confusion on my part. I've highlighted parts of my previous post in order to show the reading audience where you are wrong. I would suggest you click the link and read the entire article.
    Your blog link is wrong. Top Gun was started after the US got its tailfeathers waxed in Vietnam. McRocket is correct it's a school, not a competition like Red Flag.

    https://www.usni.org/magazines/proce...ter-excellence
    The need for a program to hone Navy fighter tactics became clear in the early years of the Vietnam War. During those first years, the probability that a U.S. air-to-air missile would destroy its target was roughly 10 percent.1 A great deal of this could be attributed to poor missile reliability, but many missiles were launched out of their effectiveness envelope, which indicated a training problem. Rules of engagement that required visual identification before taking a shot made things worse all around.



    U.S. Navy aircrews were flying the most modern fighters in the world—the F-4 Phantom II and F-8 Crusader—against a relatively primitive foe in the North Vietnamese air force, yet the Navy’s kill ratio was only 2.5:1. Kill ratio is a common yardstick of fighter performance; it indicates the number of enemy aircraft destroyed for each U.S. fighter lost. In World War II, which ended just 20 years before the air war in Vietnam started, the U.S. Navy’s kill ratio was 14:1. In the Korean War, American jets had a 12:1 kill ratio. Clearly, something had to be done.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    The POINT of the OP is that when all this STARTED, black folk won a fair & square contest ... and folk of your mindset wouldn't give them their full credit due out of sheer racist spite.
    You're mentally retarded, aren't you?

    There's not a single thing in my post which is incorrect.
    Life is better when you live it on your own terms...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    No confusion on my part. I've highlighted parts of my previous post in order to show the reading audience where you are wrong. I would suggest you click the link and read the entire article.
    You are comparing apples and oranges.

    You typed: 'the military’s first “Top Gun” style competition'.

    'Top Gun' is NOT a competition.
    It is/was a school.

    And the competition you speak of back in 1949 - from everything I can find - was NEVER (back then) called 'Top Gun'.

    Again....you are comparing apples and oranges.
    A school called 'Top Gun' to a gunnery competition that was (apparently) never called 'Top Gun'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McRocket View Post

    Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
    No confusion on my part. I've highlighted parts of my previous post in order to show the reading audience where you are wrong. I would suggest you click the link and read the entire article.


    You are comparing apples and oranges.

    You typed: 'the military’s first “Top Gun” style competition'.

    'Top Gun' is NOT a competition.
    It is/was a school.

    And the competition you speak of back in 1949 - from everything I can find - was NEVER (back then) called 'Top Gun'.

    Again....you are comparing apples and oranges.
    A school called 'Top Gun' to a gunnery competition that was (apparently) never called 'Top Gun'.
    Okay, let's try this from another angle.

    One: READ CAREFULLY AND COMPREHENSIVELY: But in reality, it was a Tuskegee Airmen who took part and won the military’s first “Top Gun” style competition The United States Air Force held their “First Ever” Weapons Meet at Las Vegas Air Force Base, Nevada on 2 May 1949. The famous 332nd Fighter Group Team, of Captain Alva Temple, 1st Lieutenant Harry Stewart, 1st Lieutenant James Harvey and alternate pilot 1st Lieutenant Halbert Alexander won the Competition. However, the 332nd Fighter Group was never recognized as the “Winner” until April 1995. Forty-Six years after winning the Weapons Meet.

    This was a PRECURSOR to the TOP GUN school in dealing with aerial combat - which culminates in a competition, whether you acknowledge it or not. You can split the hair, but the root remains the same. Again, black folk were denied their place in American history for a LONG time. Deal with it.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Your blog link is wrong. Top Gun was started after the US got its tailfeathers waxed in Vietnam. McRocket is correct it's a school, not a competition like Red Flag.

    https://www.usni.org/magazines/proce...ter-excellence
    The need for a program to hone Navy fighter tactics became clear in the early years of the Vietnam War. During those first years, the probability that a U.S. air-to-air missile would destroy its target was roughly 10 percent.1 A great deal of this could be attributed to poor missile reliability, but many missiles were launched out of their effectiveness envelope, which indicated a training problem. Rules of engagement that required visual identification before taking a shot made things worse all around.



    U.S. Navy aircrews were flying the most modern fighters in the world—the F-4 Phantom II and F-8 Crusader—against a relatively primitive foe in the North Vietnamese air force, yet the Navy’s kill ratio was only 2.5:1. Kill ratio is a common yardstick of fighter performance; it indicates the number of enemy aircraft destroyed for each U.S. fighter lost. In World War II, which ended just 20 years before the air war in Vietnam started, the U.S. Navy’s kill ratio was 14:1. In the Korean War, American jets had a 12:1 kill ratio. Clearly, something had to be done.
    Okay, let's try this from another angle.

    One: READ CAREFULLY AND COMPREHENSIVELY: But in reality, it was a Tuskegee Airmen who took part and won the military’s first “Top Gun” style competition The United States Air Force held their “First Ever” Weapons Meet at Las Vegas Air Force Base, Nevada on 2 May 1949. The famous 332nd Fighter Group Team, of Captain Alva Temple, 1st Lieutenant Harry Stewart, 1st Lieutenant James Harvey and alternate pilot 1st Lieutenant Halbert Alexander won the Competition. However, the 332nd Fighter Group was never recognized as the “Winner” until April 1995. Forty-Six years after winning the Weapons Meet.


    This was a PRECURSOR to the TOP GUN school & Red Flag in dealing with aerial combat - which culminates in a competition, whether you acknowledge it or not. You can split the hair, but the root remains the same. Again, black folk were denied their place in American history for a LONG time. Deal with it.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by Street Glider View Post
    You're mentally retarded, aren't you?

    There's not a single thing in my post which is incorrect.
    Why don't you learn how to read carefully and comprehensively before your fingers hit the keys?

    Here's what you've obviously missed. I've highlighted it for you:

    The POINT of the OP is that when all this STARTED, black folk won a fair & square contest ... and folk of your mindset wouldn't give them their full credit due out of sheer racist spite.

    Those who know NOTHING beyond their own birthdays ASSUMED that the movie was the full, valid history of TOP GUN as it implied. Fact is, it wasn't.

    What you say here are essentially moot points that DO NOT alter the implications and FACTS of the OP one iota. Deal with it.


    If you STILL don't get it, look up the word PRECURSOR and apply it to the OP. Beyond that, I can't help you. Good luck, bunky.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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