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Thread: Hiroshima was nuked, 6 August 1945

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    I do to...by 2020s standard. In 1945, I'd have ordered the bombs dropped. Letting the war last longer than necessary would be immoral.

    From December 1941 to August 1945 America lost 407,316 of its sons and daughters plus chopped up another 671,278. Like Ukraine, the US didn't start the hostilities, but both have the right to neutralize the enemy waging war on them.

    We can argue the "unconditional surrender aspect" but leading American generals were familiar hundreds of years of European wars and realized that anything short of unconditional surrender was merely a ceasefire. We'd lost too many to fall short of a 100% win to ensure it never happened again.
    FDR and Truman were playing for all the marbles. And rightly so.

    They were not going to offer Japan terms. They were not going to let the Japanese government survive. They were going to occupy Japan, dismantle it's institutions, and rebuild it as a pacifist democracy.

    Imperial Japan was an aggressor state with a long history of invading it's neighbors

    Japan in it's imperial form could not be allowed to exist and survive.

    I think the argument can be made that the only way to make Japan submit to our objectives was to convince them they had been utterly defeated and were on precipice of total annihilation.

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    The ends don't justify the means, and civilians should NEVER be targeted. Ever.

    This was an atrocity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I think nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki was immoral and a crime against nature. But I also think it played a role in Japan accepting it had been utterly defeated and forcing them to submit to an unconditional surrender and a military occupation.
    It was a judgement call


    They were going to fight

    Man

    Women

    And child


    It was a cult

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    what an ignorant dumb ass, they didn't surrender util the 2nd bomb was dropped and were warned.

    Emperor Hirohito and his chief political adviser, Kido Koichi, stuck with the militarists and insisted on continuing with preparations for final battles on the home islands even in late June, when all organized resistance on Okinawa had ended, and an estimated 120,000 Japanese combatants (including Koreans and Taiwanese) and 150,000 to 170,000 non-combatants lay dead. U.S. combat losses in the battle of Okinawa were approximately 12,520 killed and over 33,000 wounded. With time accelerating and their sense of the urgency of the situation deepening, Hirohito responded to this defeat by forcing the army and navy leaders to agree to the idea of an"early peace." But he still gave no indication that he was thinking in terms of an immediate surrender, let alone proposing peace to the nations he was actually fighting.
    You Googled that, amirite. In the real world Japan was desperately trying to surrender but the US had a new toy they wanted to show off to the world. No matter what you think of Japanese yellow fascists, they were building schools and factories all over Asia. The US calls that spreading democracy. We have to bomb them into compliance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goat View Post
    You Googled that, amirite. In the real world Japan was desperately trying to surrender but the US had a new toy they wanted to show off to the world. No matter what you think of Japanese yellow fascists, they were building schools and factories all over Asia. The US calls that spreading democracy. We have to bomb them into compliance.
    Eat shit lying asshole

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    More Japanese including civilians would have died


    As well as American soldiers


    Truman had to make a decision


    He sided on fewer deaths


    I will forever praise him for that

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    Quote Originally Posted by goat View Post
    You Googled that, amirite. In the real world Japan was desperately trying to surrender but the US had a new toy they wanted to show off to the world. No matter what you think of Japanese yellow fascists, they were building schools and factories all over Asia. The US calls that spreading democracy. We have to bomb them into compliance.
    BS I grew up right after the war our parents often discussed it also as a nation it was fresh in our memories and documented, not some revisionist bull shit

    japan was imperialst , China and Korea killing off populations, ever hear of the rape of nanking, kid
    Last edited by Guno צְבִי; 08-06-2022 at 07:07 PM.
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by signalmankenneth View Post
    They could have just surrounded the island nation with ships and just use conventional bombing without a land invasion?!! No goods or material could get into Japan, it would be just a matter of time before they would surrender?!! The atomic bombs were over kill?!!
    So were the planes that bombed Pearl Harbor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    More Japanese including civilians would have died


    As well as American soldiers


    Truman had to make a decision


    He sided on fewer deaths


    I will forever praise him for that
    Before the end of the second World War, Emperor Hirohito was considered by the Japanese to be a living God.
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    Wasted bombs that should have been used on the future red states instead.

    Now that our former ally the Soviet Union is gone, we should use them on the new fascist Russia as well.
    It is the right and duty for all free men who are able to extrajudicially execute registered democrats anywhere in the world at any time. The only good leftist is a dead leftist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    Eat shit lying asshole
    Killing innocent civilians is what the US does best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I don't think there has ever been a nation in human history that surrendered unconditionally and submitted to a military occupation because of a blockade.

    As for bombing, I don't see fire bombing Japanese cities with incendiaries as being necessarily much more moral than a nuclear strike
    Agreed. More moral in those days than over 75 years later. That's more time than between the Civil War and WWI. Gassing, glass or wooden bullets, triangular bayonets. War was to win. How many here defend the Yankee Scorched Earth strategy through the South? Under the Geneva Code, it's a war crime.

    Morals and standards change. Mostly for the better and that's a good thing.

    Truman made the right call.
    God bless America and those who defend our Constitution.

    "Hatred is a failure of imagination" - Graham Greene, "The Power and the Glory"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I think nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki was immoral and a crime against nature. But I also think it played a role in Japan accepting it had been utterly defeated and forcing them to submit to an unconditional surrender and a military occupation.
    Allowing the war to continue was costing tens of thousands of deaths a day across the Pacific due to the side effects of war EG disruption to supply chains and shortages not to mention incendiary bombing raids were killing just as many if not more people than the nuclear weapons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by signalmankenneth View Post
    They could have just surrounded the island nation with ships and just use conventional bombing without a land invasion?!! No goods or material could get into Japan, it would be just a matter of time before they would surrender?!! The atomic bombs were over kill?!!
    Those conventional bombing raids were incendiary bombing raids that created firestorm resulting in just as many if not more casualties than the atomic bombs.

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