Conservatives and War

[Bfgrn]

Did I hear Sarah Palin???




Obama has both a first-class intellect and a first-class temperament.
Charles Krauthammer

[Minister of Truth]

Socrtease, funny but that piece falls in-line with most of my impressions and assumptions about conservatives. I know so many who avoided the draft in one way or the other and yet supported the war (read illegal invasion) in Iraq. 'Love' may be a bit of exaggeration, but war (military buildups) is a part of their thinking, and for the religious right a part of Gawd's plan. Remember their magical hero Ronnie brought down Russian communism and all he did was buy weapons.

Okay, you seem to be confusing Vietnam (draft) with Iraq (no draft), but, whatever. You are correct that Reagan and Bush both viewed foreign policy from the realist perspective in which our interests could be secured through pressure, power-play, and basic Kissinger philosophy. I have yet to figure out how neocons reconcile the realism of Reagan and Bush with the neoconservatism of Wolfowitz and Bremer.

As a lefty socialist liberal, I support the draft as I feel citizens have a responsibility to the nation that provides them the wherewithal for an excellent life - which I have had partly because of the GI bill. It is duty rather than slavery. I part with the author on the caviler idea that individual freedom (whatever that may be to the person) leads to nirvana, anyone older that 12 knows that is BS.

In a free society, the people owe absolutely nothing to the government, let alone something as extreme as the draft. What you do is establish local customs (community values) where good behavior is honored and poor behavior is stigmatized. This is how it was done in the past.

As is well known here, I am also opposed to libertarian thought which I see as naive and selfish.

http://www.conservativenannystate.org/
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07232008.html

Look, we all saw your stupid Nutshell threads on FP.com, and to date, no single poster has been as severely or completely demolished in a series of debates as you were by the libertarians. And this says something considering that people like Dixie and toby were supposed to be there helping out your image considerably.

One thing about libertarians is that their views do not have anything to do with the nanny state, unless you consider liberty a nanny state concept.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

but you didn't agree with everything that McCain stood for either, so you chose what you thought was the lesser of two evils. Basically, all you did was allow the authoritarian machine to continue to roll over us.

No I chose one of two candidates which could possibly win, and voted on the basis of their VP pick. Basically, all Libertarian voters did, was elect Obama.

[SmarterthanYou]

No I chose one of two candidates which could possibly win, and voted on the basis of their VP pick. Basically, all Libertarian voters did, was elect Obama.

so the libertarians should be the ones who vote for the lesser of two evils, and not their own candidates based on political philosophy. principles should only apply to republicans and democrats? thanks for the help.

[apple0154]

There seems to be some misconceptions about why the Republicans lost power. If we take a really pragmatic look at the events since Reagan, it is clear, the Republican party became weak during the Clinton reign, and never corrected course. Since 1996, we have seen the Republicans slide to the middle, often with a contingent hell-bent on "going along to get along" with democrats. John McCain is the poster child for this movement.

When I talk to REPUBLICANS who disliked Bush, it was NOT because Bush was too right wing, or too socially conservative, it was because Bush was not conservative enough! The Pill Bill, spending more than the previous two Democrat presidents, letting Ted Kennedy define the Education Bill, abandoning vouchers, not balancing the budget... not being a conservative! I think many saw McCain as yet another degree away from Conservatism... we moved a degree away with Bush Sr., and another degree away with Bush Jr. and McCain represented yet another departure from conservative principles.

Now it seems we have all these "Libertarian" pinheads, telling us why we lost! Look, republicans aren't libertarians, and they aren't liberals, they are conservatives. You guys have your party, you have your ideology, stop trying to cajole republicans into something that doesn't define who they are. It should be obvious, no elections are going to be won by standing in the middle of the road and trying to be half-ass conservative and half-ass liberal at the same time, it simply doesn't work in politics.

What the "pinheads" are telling the conservatives is if they don't get "with it" they will end up in obscurity. People in the 19th century also had their ideology.

From abortion to gay rights the conservatives keep growing further and further away from the general population. It can best be explained by saying the liberals represent the people whereas the conservatives insist on ruling the people.

You can't turn the clock back on freedom and expect people to vote for you.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

so the libertarians should be the ones who vote for the lesser of two evils, and not their own candidates based on political philosophy. principles should only apply to republicans and democrats? thanks for the help.

No, Libertarians should realize their ideology of principle over politics, comes at a political price for the whole country. We are a two party system, one of the two will win the next election, and the next, and the next. It's not going to suddenly shift and change, there is never going to be some mass exodus of Republicans over to the Libertarian party, it's just not likely to ever happen.

That said, you have to objectively look at the TWO candidates who have a chance to win, and decide which one you can best live with. No politician (even libertarian ones) are going to do everything they promise, and give us everything we want, that is a pipe dream. Libertarian issues and ideologies would be a hell of a lot closer to being realized, if Republicans are elected instead of Liberals, that's just a plain old fact of life. As it is, Libertarian philosophy is slipping even further away, as we are turned into a Socialist Communist nation by the Liberals. This is a consequence of Libertarians abandoning the only side which could have defeated the Liberals.

As I said, I understand WHY you did it, I just think it was a pinheaded thing to do!

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

What the "pinheads" are telling the conservatives is if they don't get "with it" they will end up in obscurity. People in the 19th century also had their ideology.

From abortion to gay rights the conservatives keep growing further and further away from the general population. It can best be explained by saying the liberals represent the people whereas the conservatives insist on ruling the people.

You can't turn the clock back on freedom and expect people to vote for you.

On Abortion, the nation is essentially split down the middle, but an overwhelming majority disfavors Partial-birth Abortion. On gay marriage, the vast majority of America is not in favor of it, including Barrack Obama and Joe Biden! What the fuck are you smoking???

[apple0154]

On Abortion, the nation is essentially split down the middle, but an overwhelming majority disfavors Partial-birth Abortion. On gay marriage, the vast majority of America is not in favor of it, including Barrack Obama and Joe Biden! What the fuck are you smoking???

I think it's you who can't see through the smoke. Gay marriage is going to happen and become accepted. Abortion is going to stay legal. Make a little note to yourself so you can refer to this as the years pass.

Here's something you need to remember. People will fight stronger for freedom than they will to prevent others from having freedom because it directly affects them.

Put in terms you can understand gay marriage affects gay people more than it does the straight folks so the straight folks won't fight as hard to prevent it as the gays will to legalize it.

Did you follow that?

That's the problem with the conservatives. They fight against change and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

The same applies to medical coverage. They fought so long against it that people don't give a damn where they stand on it. The Dems are going to implement it in one form or another.

Like Obama and Biden the majority may not agree with gay marriage but it doesn't really affect them just as it doesn't affect any other married person so while they may not be for it they are not going to fight against it.

Now do you understand?

[TuTu Monroe]

On Abortion, the nation is essentially split down the middle, but an overwhelming majority disfavors Partial-birth Abortion. On gay marriage, the vast majority of America is not in favor of it, including Barrack Obama and Joe Biden! What the fuck are you smoking???

The left screams about waterboarding and torture, but it's okay to put a drill in a babies head in late-term abortions? Sheesh!!!

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I think it's you who can't see through the smoke. Gay marriage is going to happen and become accepted. Abortion is going to stay legal. Make a little note to yourself so you can refer to this as the years pass.

Here's something you need to remember. People will fight stronger for freedom than they will to prevent others from having freedom because it directly affects them.

Put in terms you can understand gay marriage affects gay people more than it does the straight folks so the straight folks won't fight as hard to prevent it as the gays will to legalize it.

Did you follow that?

That's the problem with the conservatives. They fight against change and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

The same applies to medical coverage. They fought so long against it that people don't give a damn where they stand on it. The Dems are going to implement it in one form or another.

Like Obama and Biden the majority may not agree with gay marriage but it doesn't really affect them just as it doesn't affect any other married person so while they may not be for it they are not going to fight against it.

Now do you understand?

Nope! You are now spinning away from your original idiotic point, and now admit I am right. The rest of your post is essentially saying... well, maybe it's not like I claimed now, but it will be someday!

[Whomever]

No I chose one of two candidates which could possibly win, and voted on the basis of their VP pick. Basically, all Libertarian voters did, was elect Obama.

I recall your Palinite drooling. It was hillarious.

[Minister of Truth]

I think it's you who can't see through the smoke. Gay marriage is going to happen and become accepted. Abortion is going to stay legal. Make a little note to yourself so you can refer to this as the years pass.

Here's something you need to remember. People will fight stronger for freedom than they will to prevent others from having freedom because it directly affects them.

Put in terms you can understand gay marriage affects gay people more than it does the straight folks so the straight folks won't fight as hard to prevent it as the gays will to legalize it.

Did you follow that?

That's the problem with the conservatives. They fight against change and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it.

The same applies to medical coverage. They fought so long against it that people don't give a damn where they stand on it. The Dems are going to implement it in one form or another.

Like Obama and Biden the majority may not agree with gay marriage but it doesn't really affect them just as it doesn't affect any other married person so while they may not be for it they are not going to fight against it.

Now do you understand?

Civil War didn't work out so well for the South in that regard.

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

From abortion to gay rights the conservatives keep growing further and further away from the general population. It can best be explained by saying the liberals represent the people whereas the conservatives insist on ruling the people.

Let's recap the profound absurdity of this statement. It is actually the Democrats who are growing further away from the general population on gay marriage and partial birth abortion. Nearly 80% of Americans are opposed strongly to both. It can best be explained by saying the liberals want to force their agenda down the throats of America through judicial fiat, often overriding the will of the people at the ballot box. Conservatives represent the mainstream viewpoint of the people on both issues.

This is the sort of lies and distortion which is now a daily thing for liberals. You people just can't help the lies from tumbling out of your mouths every time they open, can you?

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Civil War didn't work out so well for the South in that regard.

Why don't you get over your Civil War bullshit and join us in the 21st Century man? I mean, it happened 150 years ago, what the fuck are we supposed to do about it now? I mean honestly? Do you want all Southern people to commit mass suicide because they live in a region of the country that seceded from the Union over a century ago, or what? Just what exactly is your point of continually bringing up something that NONE OF US were around for?

[apple0154]

The left screams about waterboarding and torture, but it's okay to put a drill in a babies head in late-term abortions? Sheesh!!!

Did you see the CNN special last week regarding late term abortions? A woman was told her fetus was grossly malformed. It was missing part of it's scalp and brain. Rather than end the pregnancy the woman bore the child and it lived for 12 hours. In the end she said it made two heavy gasps and died in her arms. When asked why she chose to bring such a child into the world she said it brought closure.

Closure!?!? She brought that child into the world and prolonged it's suffering so SHE could find closure!!! That has to be the most vile, disgusting thing I've ever heard.

On a more cheerful note how's Tu Tu doing today?