Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 60 of 60

Thread: Why Paying Taxes Is a Good Thing

  1. #46 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    12,387
    Thanks
    1,320
    Thanked 5,083 Times in 3,783 Posts
    Groans
    23
    Groaned 598 Times in 565 Posts

    Default

    When people who are obviously too stupid for democracy have it, they fuck themselves over at least as badly as any corrupt dictator could do it.

    That's the present condition of the fifty-state America format.

    Keeping incompatible people together is fucking stupid, and the results are very clearly proving it.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    I'm surrounded by stunads. Nifty Niblick, 2022

  2. #47 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    543
    Thanks
    150
    Thanked 171 Times in 138 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 40 Times in 40 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    What sane person has to think about taxes supporting the entire public sector?
    It's pretty self-evident to anybody with a functioning mind.
    If blue state residents didn't pay taxes, red state residents would be living in mud huts.
    I favor partition so we can watch that happen.
    You and the OP make the false argument that those of us who want lower taxes want no taxes at all. The real argument is how much tax is enough to fund an efficient government and to provide needed government services. Government by its very nature wants to grow and us citizens are the ones that need to keep that in check or like a cancer government will grow to the point where it kills the host organism.
    " Never underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up "

    Woke is the new Nazi's

  3. #48 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    84,727
    Thanks
    29,066
    Thanked 40,954 Times in 31,874 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,335 Times in 2,292 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    Lets say I wanted to run for Congress and be one of those good leaders (or you or anyone else, just a scenario). How much does it cost to run for office ?
    I give up. How much?

  4. #49 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    33,381
    Thanks
    22,958
    Thanked 18,164 Times in 12,496 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,808 Times in 5,073 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    'Free riders' take America for granted. And they figure if they can get out of paying taxes that somebody else will pay and America will always survive despite this.

    But the problem is everyone can't do that.

    If we get too many 'free riders' the country is going to go away.

    To be replaced by who knows what.

    Some kind of Trumpistan.

    People of fortitude and knowledge understand it is everyone's responsibility to not only pay their fair share, but to fight to ensure that tax rates are high enough to keep the country going.

    We can't debt-spend our way out of debt.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  5. #50 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    18,594
    Thanks
    2,541
    Thanked 6,752 Times in 5,065 Posts
    Groans
    7
    Groaned 355 Times in 338 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    I give up. How much?
    How much does it cost to win a seat in Congress? If you have ...






    Mar 11, 2013 ∑ Candidates who won a seat in Congress’ upper chamber each raised an average of $10,476,451. That's $14,351 per day. Of course, not all seats are created equally. Sen. Elizabeth
    Not a nice pretty breakdown but you get the point. A bare bones minimum cost is closer to $100,000 to run for the House. If you somehow manage to acquire the signatures strictly by your own effort and maybe your family (saving money) that might take it down to $75,000.

    Not only do they make it very easy for incumbents, they make it very difficult for party challengers and especiially hard for non-party ones.

    So you get to pick a few party challengers assuming there are any but thats about it.

    In short you have next to no choice.
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

  6. #51 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    84,727
    Thanks
    29,066
    Thanked 40,954 Times in 31,874 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,335 Times in 2,292 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    Not a nice pretty breakdown but you get the point. A bare bones minimum cost is closer to $100,000 to run for the House. If you somehow manage to acquire the signatures strictly by your own effort and maybe your family (saving money) that might take it down to $75,000.

    Not only do they make it very easy for incumbents, they make it very difficult for party challengers and especiially hard for non-party ones.

    So you get to pick a few party challengers assuming there are any but thats about it.

    In short you have next to no choice.
    The money is part of it but it's the power of a political party that makes a difference. Look at what Trump did to those Republicans who disagreed with him in November 2018.

    Americans complain about their government then they keep reelecting the same people who run it.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Dutch Uncle For This Post:

    PoliTalker (06-24-2022)

  8. #52 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    18,594
    Thanks
    2,541
    Thanked 6,752 Times in 5,065 Posts
    Groans
    7
    Groaned 355 Times in 338 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    The money is part of it but it's the power of a political party that makes a difference. Look at what Trump did to those Republicans who disagreed with him in November 2018.

    Americans complain about their government then they keep reelecting the same people who run it.
    In virtually all instances there isnt anyone else available. If you are not wealthy your chances are prohibitive.

    I was actually able to vote for someone pretty close but once elected he started getting absorbed by the party and then he lost after gerrymandering.
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

  9. #53 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    33,381
    Thanks
    22,958
    Thanked 18,164 Times in 12,496 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 5,808 Times in 5,073 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Many voices claim the debt problem is because of too much spending.

    Spending is not the problem. We must spend. We have to accept there is going to be spending.

    We have to accept there will be spending we do not agree with.

    It is not possible for everyone to have their way on taxes or spending.

    People who refuse to compromise on this are being unrealistic. So we should not even listen to them.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

  10. #54 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    84,727
    Thanks
    29,066
    Thanked 40,954 Times in 31,874 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,335 Times in 2,292 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    In virtually all instances there isnt anyone else available. If you are not wealthy your chances are prohibitive.

    I was actually able to vote for someone pretty close but once elected he started getting absorbed by the party and then he lost after gerrymandering.
    You don't have to be personally wealthy; you just need the support of the wealthy. Suck enough cocks and anyone can be the next Matt Gaetz!

  11. #55 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    18,594
    Thanks
    2,541
    Thanked 6,752 Times in 5,065 Posts
    Groans
    7
    Groaned 355 Times in 338 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    You don't have to be personally wealthy; you just need the support of the wealthy. Suck enough cocks and anyone can be the next Matt Gaetz!

    Then you are bought and you vote as told.
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

  12. #56 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    84,727
    Thanks
    29,066
    Thanked 40,954 Times in 31,874 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,335 Times in 2,292 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    Then you are bought and you vote as told.
    ONLY if you want to stay in office longer than one term.

    You still have a choice. I was always an operations guy, not a political guy. I have zero fucking interest in a job that requires giving handies to other people. Those who go into politics don't have a problem with it.

    If we want to change the candidates a party is choosing then we have to change the party from the inside. Everyone over 40 has seen the radical change in the Republican Party from Reagan through the end of the Cold War and up to the Insurrection. Now they've stacked SCOTUS with activist judges who are targeting rights.

    I cannot support a party that actively works to remove rights from Americans. It's why I never voted for a Democrat President. Where is the Republican Party I joined in the 1970s? Romney was my last Republican vote. When the RNC rejected the results of the Growth & Opportunity Project I was done.

    Barry Goldwater predicted such result in his 1981 speech to Congress: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...1-pt16-1-1.pdf
     

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...1-pt16-1-1.pdf

    pages 20589-20590 (.pdf pages 57-58 out of 64) September 15th, 1981

    TO BE CONSERVATIVE

    • Mr. GOLDWATER. Mr. President, it is a wonderful feeling to be a conservative these days. When I ran for President 17 years ago I was told I was behind the times. Now everybody tells me I was ahead of my time. All I can say is that time certainly is an elusive companion.
    But those reactions illustrate how far the ideological pendulum has swung in recent years. The American people have expressed their desire for a new course in our public policy in this country-a conservative course.

    President Reagan's triumphs at the polls and in Congress during the past year are, of course, great tributes to his skill as a politician. But they also resulted, I believe, from the long-developing shift of public opinion to traditional American values.

    As far as I am concerned, that shift had to come. Government had been intruding more and more into every aspect of our lives. The people just would not stand for it anymore.

    I have seen it coming for a long time. Throughout my political career, since the day I took my seat in the U.S. Senate, I have preached one basic theme: The bigger Government gets, the more it threatens our freedom.

    I am certain those who contributed to the growth of Government had all the best intentions. As they started one Federal program after another through the years, their motives always sounded good and the intent of the programs always seemed admirable.

    Almost 150 years ago a young French- man came to this country and marveled at the success of the American experiment in democracy. Alexis de Tocqueville wrote after visiting this country that:

    The advantage of democracy does not consist . . . in favoring the prosperity of all, but simply in contributing to the-well-being of the greatest number.

    And the foundation for our form of government is not in the principle of prosperity for all but in freedom for all. That is what has attracted all those who have migrated to this country. That is what has made America the symbol of hope and prosperity for all the world.

    Freedom: That is what true conservatism is all about.
    Being a conservative in America traditionally has meant that one holds a deep, abiding respect for the Constitution. We conservatives believe sincerely in the integrity of the Constitution. We treasure the freedom that document protects.


    We believe, as the Founding Fathers did, that we "are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

    And for 205 years this Nation, based on those principles, has endured.

    Through foreign wars and civil wars, through political scandals and economic disasters, through civil disorders and Presidential assassinations, our flag has flown high. Through it all we have survived every possible attack on our freedom.

    But where the guns of war and the breadlines of the depression failed, another force could succeed in dividing our country. The specter of single issue religious groups is growing over our land.

    In all honesty, I must admit that the birth of the so-called "new right" is a direct reaction to years of increasing social activism by the liberal side of the religious house. Within that development lies a very serious threat to our liberty.

    One of the great strengths of our political system always has been our tendency to keep religious issues in the background. By maintaining the separation of church and state, the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars. Throughout our 200-plus years, public policy debate has focused on political and economic issues, on which there can be compromise.

    James Madison, once wrote that "If men were angels, no government would be necessary."
    Well, Madison certainly recognized that humans are not angels. He realized that they tend to group together in nar- row interest groups, which he called factions. And he wrote extensively in the federalist papers about how the Constitution should protect us from the abuses of various factions.

    Madison saw this as the great paradox of our system: How do you control the basic freedoms?
    Madison wrote:

    In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: You must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

    And in a well-constructed representative government like ours, Madison said, one of our greatest strengths is our ability to "break and control the violence of faction."


    What he said is that the aim of the framers of the Constitution was to allow freedom of religion and freedom of speech for everyone, not just those who follow one religious iaction.
    Madison said:

    A zeal for different opinions concerning religion has occasionally divided mankind . . . and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppose each other than to cooperate for the common good.

    Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage of Iran, the bloodshed in Northern Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?

    Our political process involves a constant give and take, a continuous series of trade-offs. From this system of compromise, we get legislation that reflects input from many sectors of our society and addresses many needs and interests.

    Obviously, not everyone can be pleased, but at least all sides are considered.

    However, on religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ. Or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls his supreme being.

    But, like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly.
    The religious factors that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their positions 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on any particular moral issue, they cajole, they complain, they threaten you with loss of money or votes or both.


    In the past couple years. I have seen many news items that referred to the moral majority, pro-life and other religious groups as "the new right," and the "new conservatism," Well, I have spent quite a number of years carrying the flag of the "old conservatism." And I can say with conviction that the religious issues of these groups have little or nothing to do with conservative or liberal politics.

    The uncompromising position of these groups is a divisive element that could tear apart the very spirit of our representative system, if they gain sufficient strength.

    As it is, they are diverting us away from the vital issues that our Government needs to address. We are facing serious economic and military dangers in this country today, and we need to make a concerted effort to correct our problems in these areas.

    But far too much of the time of Members of Congress and officials in the executive branch is used up dealing with special interest groups on issues like abortion, school busing, ERA, prayer in the schools, and pornography. While these are important moral issues, they are secondary right now to our national security and economic survival.

    I must make it clear that I do not condemn these groups for what they believe. I happen to share many of the values emphasized by these organizations.

    I, too, believe that we Americans should return to our traditional values concerning morality, family closeness, self-reliance, and a dav's work for a day's pay. These are the values our forebears clung to as they built this Nation into the citadel of freedom it is today.

    And I, too, have been pleased with the swing of the pendulum for in recent years to the conservative, moral end of the spectrum.

    But I object to certain groups jumping on that pendulum and then claiming that they caused it to swing in the first place.

    And I am frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C," and "D.'' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?

    And I am more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every rollcall in the Senate.

    I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of conservatism.


    This unrelenting obsession with a particular goal destroys the perspective of many decent people with whom I think I agree on most issues. In the quest for moral righteousness they have become easy prey to manipulation and misjudgment.

    A prime example was the recent nomination of Sandra O'Connor as a Supreme Court justice and the ensuing uproar over her stand on abortion.

    The abortion issue has nothing to do with being conservative or liberal. I happen to oppose abortion, but there are many fine conservatives who would go along with regulated abortions. In fact, my own wife believes that a woman should have the freedom of choice for herself whether she is capable of continuing the pregnancy and then raising the child.

    I disagree with her on that. Yet I respect her right to disagree. If I expected her to agree with me on every issue we would be in a lot of trouble.
    And the same goes for prospective Supreme Court justices. No single issue ever should decide the fitness of a Supreme Court justice. To think otherwise is to go against the integrity of the Constitution.

    There are many broad issues addressed each day by a jurist that are much more revealing of how that person might perform on the High Court. A judge's attitude on private property rights, State sovereignty, statutory construction, and treatment of criminaLs tells me more about whether a person is conservative than his or her stand on abortion.

    Of course, the saddest part of the whole dispute was that Judge O'Connor was attacked by these religious factions for a position she does not hold. She opposes abortion and said so. I firmly believe that she recognizes the authority of legislatures to regulate it.

    She will make an excellent justice of the Supreme Court. She will make President Reagan proud that he chose her as the best of all candidates-men or women.

    And the religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy.

    They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives.

    The great decisions of Government cannot be dictated by the concerns of religious factions. This was true in the days of Madison, and it is just as true today.

    We have succeeded for 205 years in keeping the affairs of State separate from the uncompromising idealism of religious groups and we must not stop now.

    To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism and the values upon which the framers built this democratic republic.•


  13. #57 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    18,594
    Thanks
    2,541
    Thanked 6,752 Times in 5,065 Posts
    Groans
    7
    Groaned 355 Times in 338 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    ONLY if you want to stay in office longer than one term.
    first term reps only vote on what comes out of committee. its already decided at that point.

    thats what my guy learned the hard way.

    there is no gaming the system.
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

  14. #58 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    84,727
    Thanks
    29,066
    Thanked 40,954 Times in 31,874 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,335 Times in 2,292 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    first term reps only vote on what comes out of committee. its already decided at that point.

    thats what my guy learned the hard way.

    there is no gaming the system.
    Nonetheless, it's a start. Normandy started with one soldier stepping off the boat. Once elected, it's easier to stay on office. Look at Matt Gaetz and Marjie Green. LOL

  15. #59 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    18,594
    Thanks
    2,541
    Thanked 6,752 Times in 5,065 Posts
    Groans
    7
    Groaned 355 Times in 338 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    Nonetheless, it's a start. Normandy started with one soldier stepping off the boat. Once elected, it's easier to stay on office. Look at Matt Gaetz and Marjie Green. LOL
    not for my guy. buck the party and you have two opponents to deal with.

    at this point there is no fixing this system short of blowing up the Capital on State of the Union night and thats just not going to happen.
    "Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything." Joseph Stalin
    The USA has lost WWIV to China with no other weapons but China Virus and some cash to buy democrats.

  16. #60 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    84,727
    Thanks
    29,066
    Thanked 40,954 Times in 31,874 Posts
    Groans
    2
    Groaned 2,335 Times in 2,292 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    not for my guy. buck the party and you have two opponents to deal with.

    at this point there is no fixing this system short of blowing up the Capital on State of the Union night and thats just not going to happen.
    Disagreed. You're letting yourself be buffaloed.

    Disagreed on violence. That's the reaction of stupid people. Government is like a marriage. Figure out how to make a marriage work and you'll have a clue on how to make government work. Mostly this is just simple trust. Distrust is being sown among Americans to the point that we are now a dysfunctional "marriage".

    Common sense should prevail but it seems to be severely lacking among those screaming the loudest.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-30-2020, 12:08 PM
  2. Most Americans should be done paying their taxes by now,
    By archives in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 109
    Last Post: 04-18-2018, 04:00 PM
  3. paying taxes is patriotic, right?
    By SmarterthanYou in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-15-2017, 09:06 AM
  4. Is paying taxes one of the duties of a citizen?
    By Guns Guns Guns in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-03-2012, 04:14 PM
  5. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 07-23-2008, 10:49 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •