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Thread: Ukraine needs to face reality to end conflict, talk to Putin: Zelenskyy

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    Putins ultimate need is as strategic buffer from NATO-especially now that Ukraine has advanced NATO weapons
    He wants "deNazification" -some of that is true, some just rhetoric
    He would like a land corridor to Crimea as well,and has that

    Ukraine want to to rebuild, but escalates the war.. i dont see anything close to a cease fire yet
    I am just going to accept your admission that Putin doesn't give a damn about the welfare of the Russian-speaking citizens of Donbas.

    Ukraine has a fundamental right to fight for their sovereign territory.

    Your insistence that they submit and surrender large and important parts of their country is a reflection of the soft American background that constitutes your cultural and historical milieu. Americans as a nation hasn't really been tested since the civil war.

    The people of the East Slavic republics are hardened by history and cultural traditions. They are going to be tenacious in defending their home and hearth. In my experience, Slavic women are generally even tougher than the MAGA fat asses who stormed the Capitol on Jan 6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    Putin hasnt been offered anything. Next is longer range rockets to hit Russia proper ( see previous page) -
    Thats a Russian "redline" -hitting Russia proper
    Putin has every incentive to take as much as he can get
    Putin has not even offered to have a ceasefire, which means he is refusing to even end the war, no matter what he gets. Putin has not figured out a way to end this war, and stay in power, so the war is not going to end. Ukraine has no say in this.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."
    trump is a child rapist. We all know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    " Just a bit of reality " ??
    Walt, the Russians now occupy about one-fifth of all of Ukraine and they're advancing towards Odessa- the taking of which would asphyxiate the Zelenskies if they could manage it.
    As Odessa is key- why do you continue to maintain that it's all over for Russia ? You sound like the potty-mouthed pseudo-Ukrainian, Cypress.
    You are acknowledging the land occupied is part of Ukraine? Are you in a safe place from Putin, because saying "the Russians now occupy about one-fifth of all of Ukraine" can get you killed?

    Anyway, Putin keeps having campaigns that start well, then slowly grind to a halt, and finally start to get reversed. The attack on Odessa recently went through that.

    Putin will keep the war going until he decides to end the war. There is nothing anyone else can do about it.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."
    trump is a child rapist. We all know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    WTF do you think has been happening?
    If you want US /NATO troops in Ukraine, that's insane
    That's exactly what I want. I was sent to Vietnam for no sane reason at all.
    The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were absurd.
    But we're afraid to keep peace in civilized Europe?

    We're a fucking joke right now.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    How about they show some moral fiber and support Palestine ? It's been 74 years, not 3 months.
    I hate to be a racist given that half the medical team that keeps me alive is middle eastern, but just the same,
    fuck the towelheads. They knocked down our tallest buildings. Now they can all rot in hell.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    I hate to be a racist given that half the medical team that keeps me alive is middle eastern, but just the same,
    fuck the towelheads. They knocked down our tallest buildings. Now they can all rot in hell.
    You deserve to be unplugged.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    You deserve to be unplugged.
    If I had to be plugged in, yes, I should be unplugged--as should anybody else.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    That's exactly what I want. I was sent to Vietnam for no sane reason at all.
    The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were absurd.
    But we're afraid to keep peace in civilized Europe?

    We're a fucking joke right now.
    Europe has NATO and the EU.
    more then enough weapons and aid. . Europe doesnt help with China in the Pacific
    Let Europe deal with their own war -we need to focus on China

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Putin has not even offered to have a ceasefire, which means he is refusing to even end the war, no matter what he gets. Putin has not figured out a way to end this war, and stay in power, so the war is not going to end. Ukraine has no say in this.
    you are mixing "staying in power" with the war.
    Putin is consolidating his gains in the east/south. But it's Ukraine that is getting the devestation.
    If Ukraine wants a cease fire " talking to Putin" is what they need to do.
    Instead we escalate the war constantly,and they keep getting pulverized

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    Europe has NATO and the EU.
    more then enough weapons and aid. . Europe doesnt help with China in the Pacific
    Let Europe deal with their own war -we need to focus on China
    China is our biggest trade partner. We're not at war with them. They have high IQs, good looking broads, and I love Chinese food.
    Why are you worried about China?
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    you are mixing "staying in power" with the war.
    No, Putin is. Putin is thinking of Putin, and this war is solely the decision of Putin. Putin will continue this war for as long as peace is worse for Putin. Right now, peace would be a disaster for Putin, so we will have more war. He will refuse to take the offramps.

    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    If Ukraine wants a cease fire " talking to Putin" is what they need to do.
    Putin refuses to meet with them, and sends diplomats who have no power to talk instead. This war will continue until Putin takes one of the offramps.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."
    trump is a child rapist. We all know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    China is our biggest trade partner. We're not at war with them. They have high IQs, good looking broads, and I love Chinese food.
    Why are you worried about China?
    jesus you are a waste of time "Chinese food and broads"

    China Tops Threats in New Defense Strategy
    https://www.defenseone.com/policy/20...rategy/363754/

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    How about they show some moral fiber and support Palestine ? It's been 74 years, not 3 months.
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.


    “If Hamas put down their weapons, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons, there would be no Israel."






    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    No, Putin is. Putin is thinking of Putin, and this war is solely the decision of Putin. Putin will continue this war for as long as peace is worse for Putin. Right now, peace would be a disaster for Putin, so we will have more war. He will refuse to take the offramps.
    peace? there needs to be agreement for a cease fire first.
    Putin just took Lyman - no reason for him for talks
    https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia...k-intelligence
    "Lyman is strategically important because it is the site of a major railway junction, and also gives access to important rail and road bridges over the Siverskyy Donets River," the memo continued.
    Putin is making gains, Zelensky is back and forth on "needs to be talks with Putin"

    Putin refuses to meet with them, and sends diplomats who have no power to talk instead. This war will continue until Putin takes one of the offramps.
    what "offramps"?
    Biden keeps escalating the weapons now it's long range multiple missile launchers into Russia
    you want a ceasefire, then stop pouring gasoline on the existing war

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    Horseshit. The Grand Mufti was appointed by the British


    Haw, haw............................haw.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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