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Thread: Did you know [i]1984[/i] was really about western liberalism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    What you said could be said in the UK.



    It is amazing how open the Republicans have become about their Neo-Nazism.
    That's a totally American (Both North and South) sentiment, oh Commie boy.

    The real Boris are great, but they're not a majority. Usually older, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    The Russians don't think we're supposed to know that.

    I give you credit, C.
    You're still flying that flag, trying to separate the Russian people from the Russian government.
    The question is, Why then, can't they ever put together a good one?
    It's unrealistic to expect that the Russian people would get from Communist rule to a functioning liberal republic in such a short span of time.

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    Mason Michaels (05-28-2022)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    It might surprise you, but I actually somewhat agree with you. I am not a full (conservative) Neo-Liberal, but I do think the market has an important role in progress, and must be allowed to be somewhat free. I am more of Third Way, to use more British terminology. The market cannot go unregulated, but the market is an amazing force that we do not want to regulate out of existence, even if we could, which we cannot.

    Orwell was from a different time, and would have dismissed your concerns out of hat.
    Orwell likely would have gone from arguing with totalitarians to arguing with the New Right. Today, he would be a perfect guest on Bill Maher's show, expressing concern that progressives are using his works as a cookbook for making omelettes.

    I think social democrats and traditionalist conservatives are the two guys at a table in the back of a bar, drinking together because they figure no one else wants to talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    The Russians don't think we're supposed to know that.

    I give you credit, C.
    You're still flying that flag, trying to separate the Russian people from the Russian government.
    The question is, Why then, can't they ever put together a good one?
    If you are interested in finding people to look down on for not establishing functioning liberal democracies, you can consider yourself superior to over half of the humans on the planet today, and about 99.99 percent of all humans who ever lived.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    If you are interested in finding people to look down on for not establishing functioning liberal democracies, you can consider yourself superior to over half of the humans on the planet today, and about 99.99 percent of all humans who ever lived.
    I love Italy with full knowledge of their failures. Russia has been infinitely worse at establishing governments than even Italy.
    If they can't do it, how can we expect them to do it?
    People at an earlier stage of evolution are not those against whom I measure myself, by the way.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minister of Truth View Post
    It's unrealistic to expect that the Russian people would get from Communist rule to a functioning liberal republic in such a short span of time.
    Why? We've already given them a great example of how NOT to do it, and the more modern, European parliamentary governments have shown them the right way to do it.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    I love Italy with full knowledge of their failures. Russia has been infinitely worse at establishing governments than even Italy.
    If they can't do it, how can we expect them to do it?
    People at an earlier stage of evolution are not those against whom I measure myself, by the way.
    So..right around a troglodyte?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    Why? We've already given them a great example of how NOT to do it, and the more modern, European parliamentary governments have shown them the right way to do it.
    You're free to take your ass elsewhere where they do, cupcake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Dillon View Post
    You're free to take your ass elsewhere where they do, cupcake.
    If I'm a cupcake, what are you. Miss Kitty--a toilet puck?
    Does it hurt to be that stupid?

    Did your parents sniff household cleaners before conceiving you?
    Your dad needed to throw a bag on it.
    You were never necessary.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    If I'm a cupcake, what are you. Miss Kitty--a toilet puck?
    Does it hurt to be that stupid?

    Did your parents sniff household cleaners before conceiving you?
    Your dad needed to throw a bag on it.
    You were never necessary.
    You were never wanted or loved.

    Actually you were adopted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    I love Italy with full knowledge of their failures. Russia has been infinitely worse at establishing governments than even Italy.
    If they can't do it, how can we expect them to do it?
    People at an earlier stage of evolution are not those against whom I measure myself, by the way.
    The Provisional government of Russia in 1917 was arguably the most liberal government on the planet to that point in history.

    I think capitalism killed incipient democracy in Russia in the 1990s. On the advice of American economic advisors, Russia implemented a radical form of cowboy capitalism in the 1990s, and that was the genesis of the gangster oligarchs. They should have stuck with the gradualist approach of Gorbachev.

    People have different definitions of freedom, and I doubt a Russian democracy should it evolve in the generation after ours, will look like ours.

    I do not think Chinese, Africans, Arabs, or North Koreans are inferior people for not having a liberal democracy. We Americans got lucky because our heritage and our model was the English constitutional system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Dillon View Post
    I don't even wanna know.

    That don't look like it should be wearing a dress.

    Is Mason Canadian?
    She's host of Big Brother Canada
    AM I, I AM's,AM I.
    What day is Michaelmas on?

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    Matt Dillon (05-29-2022)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The Provisional government of Russia in 1917 was arguably the most liberal government on the planet to that point in history.

    I think capitalism killed incipient democracy in Russia in the 1990s. On the advice of American economic advisors, Russia implemented a radical form of cowboy capitalism in the 1990s, and that was the genesis of the gangster oligarchs. They should have stuck with the gradualist approach of Gorbachev.

    People have different definitions of freedom, and I doubt a Russian democracy should it evolve in the generation after ours, will look like ours.

    I do not think Chinese, Africans, Arabs, or North Koreans are inferior people for not having a liberal democracy. We Americans got lucky because our heritage and our model was the English constitutional system.
    Corporate Capitalism rules America, through the politicians they buy and sell
    AM I, I AM's,AM I.
    What day is Michaelmas on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    The Provisional government of Russia in 1917 was arguably the most liberal government on the planet to that point in history.

    I think capitalism killed incipient democracy in Russia in the 1990s. On the advice of American economic advisors, Russia implemented a radical form of cowboy capitalism in the 1990s, and that was the genesis of the gangster oligarchs. They should have stuck with the gradualist approach of Gorbachev.

    People have different definitions of freedom, and I doubt a Russian democracy should it evolve in the generation after ours, will look like ours.

    I do not think Chinese, Africans, Arabs, or North Koreans are inferior people for not having a liberal democracy. We Americans got lucky because our heritage and our model was the English constitutional system.
    You could have a point, but I don't see it.
    I believe that it is a serious human deficiency to be unable to establish liberal democracy.
    I also believe that our form of government is perhaps the last example to be used as a model.
    It couldn't be more inefficient if it were stuck in quicksand.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848
    Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. Kris Kristofferson, 1969

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