Can there be a proof of God?

[BidenPresident]

No, Aquinas was wrong, Augustine right, it is a matter of faith

Augustine gave proofs of God.

[BidenPresident]

My point is that even if you don’t feel god within yourself, you can possibly infer gods existence in others.

No, only that I know you tell me your experience.

[BidenPresident]

No, Aquinas was wrong, Augustine right, it is a matter of faith

Augustine:

“Now you had conceded that if I proved the existence of something higher than
our minds, you would admit that it was God, as long as there was nothing higher
still. I accepted this concession, and said that it would be enough if I proved that
there is something higher than our minds. For if there is something more
excellent than the truth, then that is God; if not, the truth itself is God. So in either
case you cannot deny that God exists.” (2.15, pg. 58

https://wmpeople.wm.edu/asset/index/cvance/fcw1

[Cypress]

Agreed. God has the power to make us do but doesn't...which is why modern Christianity and I disagree on the concept of a "personal God" that grants wishes to those who pray hard enough.

IMO, God is designed the Universe and all of its laws then has let things run their course without interference. To interfere would be breaking the rules and, therefore, cheat. I believe God is honest and never cheats.

^ a classical Diest approach.

What ever purposeful forces underlie creation, I feel that it is probably unfathomable to human cognition, and exists outside what we think of as time and space.

I feel like the Abrahamistic God, the Dao, Brahman, are just human attempts to give a name to it.

[Doc Dutch]

^ a classical Diest approach.

What ever purposeful forces underlie creation, I feel that it is probably unfathomable to human cognition, and exists outside what we think of as time and space.

I feel like the Abrahamistic God, the Dao, Brahman, are just human attempts to give a name to it.

Agreed on all points.

In many ways religions resemble the story of the Blind Men and the Elephant. They all have elements of truth and wisdom, but some of their proponents are not thinking clearly.

[Doc Dutch]

People usually conflate the word proof with the word evidence.

Outside of the axioms of Euclidean geometry, nothing in human experience is proven. And even Euclidean proofs are open to debate.

Science doesn't prove anything. Science is probabalistic, and based on empircal evidence. The Big Bang has not been proven, nor has the Mendelian synthesis on evolution. We can have extremely high confidence in scientific theories, but they are always provisional and subject to modification or change.


There is no empircal evidence of God, and no one of any importance has even tried to offer a deductive proof of God since Descartes in the 17th century.

I did not do that. The topic of the thread is proof.

There is no proof. /thread

[Cypress]

I did not do that. The topic of the thread is proof.

That's my point. There is no such thing as proof, with the possible exception of Euclidean geometry.

We don't have proof of the Big Bang, but we have extremely strong evidence.

on the flipside, there is no convincing evidence for the God of the Old Testament.

[PostmodernProphet]

We know we exist. That does need proof.

we exist....you do not think, therefore you are not......

[saltydancin]

There is no proof. /thread

So when McHeil's 1971 Navy steals & burns a US Constitution off a Navy Hospital wall to burn on a cross to claim they are "man is God" after murdering a Navy doctor after their stealing & burning an old glory wrapped in plastic presented by Eisenhower & inconspicuously transported inside an old testament is not proof in SCOTUS of "one nation under God with equal justice under law" just as Christianity's continuing theft of Eisenhower presented old glorys for arson as "Eisenhower was a war criminal" which also remains as "one nation under God" federal perjury by Christiananlity pedophilia suicidal super egos sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming business economics survival of the fittest fascists .

[Doc Dutch]

So when McHeil's 1971 Navy steals & burns a US Constitution off a Navy Hospital wall to burn on a cross to claim they are "man is God" after murdering a Navy doctor after their stealing & burning an old glory wrapped in plastic presented by Eisenhower & inconspicuously transported inside an old testament is not proof in SCOTUS of "one nation under God with equal justice under law" just as Christianity's continuing theft of Eisenhower presented old glorys for arson as "Eisenhower was a war criminal" which also remains as "one nation under God" federal perjury by Christiananlity pedophilia suicidal super egos sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming business economics survival of the fittest fascists .

When you can translate that into American English, please let me know. TIA

[Geeko Sportivo]

Have to define God first.

Yes, the Republicans have found their new GOD and savior!

GOD- Good Ole Donnie!



They worship the ground he walks on!

[Doc Dutch]

Yes, the Republicans have found their new GOD and savior!

GOD- Good Ole Donnie!



They worship the ground he walks on!

...with the Pedo Party killing bills to feed American children. Sad.

[Cypress]

People usually conflate the word proof with the word evidence.

Outside of the axioms of Euclidean geometry, nothing in human experience is proven. And even Euclidean proofs are open to debate.

Science doesn't prove anything. Science is probabalistic, and based on empircal evidence. The Big Bang has not been proven, nor has the Mendelian synthesis on evolution. We can have extremely high confidence in scientific theories, but they are always provisional and subject to modification or change.


There is no empircal evidence of God, and no one of any importance has even tried to offer a deductive proof of God since Descartes in the 17th century.

The best evidence for a purposefully constructed universe is the fine tuning of the universe, aka the fine structure constant (0.0073) and the other physical constants. They attain values that are very coincidentally balanced seemingly as if on the edge of a razor to make life, stars, and planets possible.

You could explain away fine tuning by novel speculations like eternal inflation, but there is no scientific basis or evidence of eternal inflation or a multiverse at this time.

[PostmodernProphet]

Yes, the Republicans have found their new GOD and savior!

GOD- Good Ole Donnie!

They worship the ground he walks on!

clearly there is no proof of lib'rul intelligence.......

[Melchizedek = Michael]

Not my point. I am only saying there cannot be proof of God.

Not with your mind nailed shut