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Thread: "Preventative Detention"?

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    Default "Preventative Detention"?

    WASHINGTON — President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us...?_r=3&emc=eta1

    Looks like another example of more of the same, plus the next step to totalitarianism. Obama has consistently not only reneged on his promises to change government, but also consistently adds to the unconstitutional corruption of his predecessor. He kept the FISA bill in place and added to its powers; actively lied and covered evidence of deliberate governmental interference with the banking system, and now wants to do with U.S. citizens what Bush did with suspected terrorist and combatants. Some friggin "change" we have here.

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    What do you propose we do with them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    What do you propose we do with them?
    What the hell do you think we do with them? If they are U.S. citizens, or even legal U.S. residents, we give them full constitutional protections exactly as we are supposed to.

    If they are suspected of criminal activity, the LEAs investigate, find evidence enough to prosecute, get a grand jury indictment, and prosecute.

    If we do anything less, we may as well burn the Constitution now and give ourselves over to whatever dictatorship arises.

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    This is a change from the last administration?

    SM,

    I have to go on the other side on this one. Big surprise huh?

    He is talking about suspected terrorists not necessarily real terrorists. Now, I know that you have not been a fan of the Obama administration. Open your mouth one too many times and you might just find yourself incarcerated as a "suspected terrorist" without hope of a trial.

    And whatever you do, don't stand out in front of an abortion clinic holding a sign that reads, "Abortion is Murder".

    Immie
    Here's to the end of our two leading "tyrannical" political parties and the restoration of our government of the people, by the people, for the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Immanuel View Post
    This is a change from the last administration?
    That's been my central point the last three threads I have started. Where is this change we can believe in? All I see is more of the same. More pandering to billionaires with our taxes, more trampling on the Constitution.

    The only "change" I see is mindless support from those who protested loudest against these same things when they came from Bush.

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    WinterBorn Guest

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    Preventive detention? In other words, punishing someone for what we think they might do?

    That is disgusting.

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    Obama is a tool for the MID.
    He's a refined Bush
    The stone that the builder refused
    Will always be the head corner stone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Luck View Post
    That's been my central point the last three threads I have started. Where is this change we can believe in? All I see is more of the same. More pandering to billionaires with our taxes, more trampling on the Constitution.

    The only "change" I see is mindless support from those who protested loudest against these same things when they came from Bush.

    There is already a thread on this topic:


    http://www.justplainpolitics.com/bus...ms-t18865.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Luck View Post
    That's been my central point the last three threads I have started. Where is this change we can believe in? All I see is more of the same. More pandering to billionaires with our taxes, more trampling on the Constitution.

    The only "change" I see is mindless support from those who protested loudest against these same things when they came from Bush.
    And more loud protest from people who supported the same things when they came from Bush. All I have seen so far is that party trumps all for most people who are active politically.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Sometimes it looks more like criticism from former Bush supporters is limited to the obvious hypocrisy of supporting ( or carefully ignoring) a policy that was heapingly criticized under Bush. And sometimes it is apparent they are decrying the actual policy - which would BE hypocrisy. And sometimes it is difficult to tell for certain what the aim of the criticism is - other than the fact Obama is not from the "correct" party.

    All I can say is it did not take the current exchange of mindless rhetoric to know that party trumps all in partisan politics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Good Luck View Post
    What the hell do you think we do with them? If they are U.S. citizens, or even legal U.S. residents, we give them full constitutional protections exactly as we are supposed to.

    If they are suspected of criminal activity, the LEAs investigate, find evidence enough to prosecute, get a grand jury indictment, and prosecute.

    If we do anything less, we may as well burn the Constitution now and give ourselves over to whatever dictatorship arises.
    I agree if we are talking about domestic terrorists here, but I'm under the impression this is about guys we have at Gitmo.

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    WinterBorn Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    I agree if we are talking about domestic terrorists here, but I'm under the impression this is about guys we have at Gitmo.
    So as long as they are not american citizens its ok to hold people against their will for extended periods of time based on little or no evidence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterBorn View Post
    So as long as they are not american citizens its ok to hold people against their will for extended periods of time based on little or no evidence?
    Non Americans wishing to do harm to us yes it is

    AS for the evidence if you are training for a terrorist group, well to me that's all the evidence ya need

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    WinterBorn Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Non Americans wishing to do harm to us yes it is

    AS for the evidence if you are training for a terrorist group, well to me that's all the evidence ya need
    If you have evidence that they will do us harm you might have a case. But many of those at Gitmo were brought there because of no such info.

    If you have evidence that they were training terrorists or training as a terrorist that is one thing. But are all the detainees under that reasoning?

    Check to see how many were brought there because of the uncorroborated information from sources that cannot be checked and may or may not be verifiable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterBorn View Post
    So as long as they are not american citizens its ok to hold people against their will for extended periods of time based on little or no evidence?
    We will release them just as we release other prisoners of war: after it is over and back to their native countries.

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