Tesla Model 3 named winner in KBB’s 5-Year Cost to Own Awards 2022. MAGA wets panties

[T. A. Gardner]

I've driven a Tesla and whatever the Chevy EV is called. . I have no issue with electric vehicles. The technology in them is cool. They're quiet. No pay for gas, oil changes. Obviously there are other types of maintenance. No vehicle is maintenance-free.

From where I live in arizona, I could not drive to San Diego, which we do often, without intentional modifications to our trip to account for recharging and that is in the top EV car that will run me $60k. I've also never, in my 30 years of driving, thought "I wish my car had more consistent torque."

The technology for EVs will improve. Costs will come down and I'm sure I'll eventually get one.

Actually, it's more likely that Toyota, Honda, and other manufacturers will perfect the hydrogen fuel cell and it will end up dominating the market in the long run.

[Hawkeye10]

Actually, it's more likely that Toyota, Honda, and other manufacturers will perfect the hydrogen fuel cell and it will end up dominating the market in the long run.

After we have wasted so much money on this other plan.

[ZenMode]

After we have wasted so much money on this other plan.

How much money will have been wasted on ICE vehicles whenever they are eventually put out to pasture?

[McRocket]

How much money will have been wasted on ICE vehicles whenever they are eventually put out to pasture?

[Joe Capitalist]

Actually, it's more likely that Toyota, Honda, and other manufacturers will perfect the hydrogen fuel cell and it will end up dominating the market in the long run.

You still floating that bullshit? Try Googling "why fuel cell technology for cars won't work" and educate yourself.


-You cannot fill up like you do with gasoline or diesel. It is actually pretty ridiculous how hard it is to fill up a HFC powered car
-You won’t even go 100 miles on current tech hydrogen tanks that are still safe to carry around in a car
-Fuel cells wear out crazy fast and are hard to regenerate
-Hydrogen as a fuel is incredibly hard to make and distribute with acceptably low losses
-Hydrogen fuel cells have bad theoretical and practical efficiency
-Hydrogen storage is inefficient, energetically, volumetrically and with respect to weight
-HFCs require a shit ton of supporting systems, making them much more complicated and prone to failure than combustion or electric engines
-There is no infrastructure for distributing or even making hydrogen in large quantities. There won’t be for at least 20 or 30 years, even if we start building it like crazy today.
-Hydrogen is actually pretty hard to make. It has a horrible well-to-wheel efficiency as a result.
-Easy ways to get large quantities of hydrogen are not ‘cleaner’ than gasoline.
-Efficient HFCs have very slow response times, meaning you again need additional systems to store energy for accelerating
-Even though a HFC-powered car is essentially an electric car, you get none of the benefits like filling it up with your own power source, using it as a smart grid buffer, regenerating energy during braking, etc.
-Battery electric cars will always be better in every way given the speed of technological developments past, present and future

[T. A. Gardner]

After we have wasted so much money on this other plan.

Honda did something like it in the 1970's too. Back then, when the original Clean Air Act passed, all the US auto manufacturers added catalytic converters to their vehicles to comply with the act. It killed performance. At Honda, they came up with a new engine design called the CVCC engine (Compound Vortex Controlled Combustion). This engine ran so clean that it didn't require a catalytic converter to meet the air standards and as a result had far better performance and got better gas milage too.

The US manufacturers came to realize that they'd have to copy this technology in order to regain performance on their new car models and began licensing it from Honda. Of course, better technology has since surpassed it, but for more than a decade, the CVCC design was the leader.

The point I'm making here is US auto manufacturers tend to take the easiest route forward with the least investment in R&D and other unprofitable investments. The path of least resistance. Right now, the government is making that path battery cars. Down the road, the Europeans and Japanese will have invented ways to make fuel cells work far better than batteries--a technological dead end.

And, yes, batteries are a technological dead end. You cannot get around the physics and chemistry of battery technology.

Once they have a fuel cell that works really well, and a storage method for hydrogen that works great, battery cars are doomed.

Anhydrous ammonia is another alternative fuel cell fuel. Interestingly, it's already been used in the past safely and widely. During WW 2, Belgium went to anhydrous ammonia in their ICE engines for public transit and other uses because gasoline was nonexistent during Nazi occupation. They used it for several years without serious incident. It too can be used in a fuel cell and is easily stored compared to hydrogen gas. In the agriculture sector it is the go-to manufactured fertilizer of choice. It's made from natural gas so that production can continue in operation. All the infrastructure for its use is in place and it avoids the massive environmental disaster of mining materials for batteries.

[T. A. Gardner]

You still floating that bullshit? Try Googling "why fuel cell technology for cars won't work" and educate yourself.


-You cannot fill up like you do with gasoline or diesel. It is actually pretty ridiculous how hard it is to fill up a HFC powered car
-You won’t even go 100 miles on current tech hydrogen tanks that are still safe to carry around in a car
-Fuel cells wear out crazy fast and are hard to regenerate
-Hydrogen as a fuel is incredibly hard to make and distribute with acceptably low losses
-Hydrogen fuel cells have bad theoretical and practical efficiency
-Hydrogen storage is inefficient, energetically, volumetrically and with respect to weight
-HFCs require a shit ton of supporting systems, making them much more complicated and prone to failure than combustion or electric engines
-There is no infrastructure for distributing or even making hydrogen in large quantities. There won’t be for at least 20 or 30 years, even if we start building it like crazy today.
-Hydrogen is actually pretty hard to make. It has a horrible well-to-wheel efficiency as a result.
-Easy ways to get large quantities of hydrogen are not ‘cleaner’ than gasoline.
-Efficient HFCs have very slow response times, meaning you again need additional systems to store energy for accelerating
-Even though a HFC-powered car is essentially an electric car, you get none of the benefits like filling it up with your own power source, using it as a smart grid buffer, regenerating energy during braking, etc.
-Battery electric cars will always be better in every way given the speed of technological developments past, present and future

You are wrong on every point you made...

https://www.progressive.com/answers/...g%20experience.

https://www.livescience.com/49594-el...explainer.html

10 Reasons Why Hydrogen Fuel Cell Is Better Than EVs
No Significant Lifestyle Change
Less Burden On Electric Infrastructure
Greater Range
No Need To Build Out New Infrastructure
Practicality
Hydrogen More Practical Energy Storage For Long Term
Potentially Less Pollution In The Short Run
Reliability In Extreme Temperatures
Smaller Batteries
Greater Job Growth

https://www.hotcars.com/reasons-why-...%20items...%20

Even the government experts admit they're a better deal

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/fi...attery_evs.pdf

The only people that are doggedly advocating for battery cars without real alternatives are the scientific illiterates and retards (like you) on the political Left. As always, the retards on the radical Left get it wrong. They latch on to some idea and it becomes religious dogma for them. Sane and sensible people know not to listen to such morons, and that's where fuel cell cars come in. They are the future, and like Japan and Germany have done before--repeatedly--they will be the ones that lead the technological change to fuel cells while the US gets fucked because they went with radical Leftists while their auto manufacturers went the route of least resistance forward not investing in serious R&D.

[Walt]

Actually, it's more likely that Toyota, Honda, and other manufacturers will perfect the hydrogen fuel cell and it will end up dominating the market in the long run.

Hydrogen has a lot of problems. First and foremost, as a gas, it is very little energy per volume. Even if you pressurize it insanely, a tank will still not get you far. As a liquid, it is not as good as gasoline, but it is in the right direction, but it is darn tough to get it into liquid form (very cold, a lot of pressure). It is tough to transport as a liquid. And it is not always easy to produce.

Risking everything on it would be insane.

[Walt]

After we have wasted so much money on this other plan.

The way you develop is that you try a bunch of things. If you think of it as wasting money, you fall behind, and you go bankrupt.

[Hawkeye10]

The way you develop is that you try a bunch of things. If you think of it as wasting money, you fall behind, and you go bankrupt.

"“If I had an hour to solve a problem I'd spend 55 minutes thinking about the problem and five minutes thinking about solutions."
Einstein.

[Joe Capitalist]

You are wrong on every point you made...

https://www.progressive.com/answers/...g%20experience.

https://www.livescience.com/49594-el...explainer.html


https://www.hotcars.com/reasons-why-...%20items...%20

Even the government experts admit they're a better deal

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/fi...attery_evs.pdf

The only people that are doggedly advocating for battery cars without real alternatives are the scientific illiterates and retards (like you) on the political Left. As always, the retards on the radical Left get it wrong. They latch on to some idea and it becomes religious dogma for them. Sane and sensible people know not to listen to such morons, and that's where fuel cell cars come in. They are the future, and like Japan and Germany have done before--repeatedly--they will be the ones that lead the technological change to fuel cells while the US gets fucked because they went with radical Leftists while their auto manufacturers went the route of least resistance forward not investing in serious R&D.

This is not a left-right issue that you're trying to make it. It's a technology issue and your two articles don't paint the whole picture.
You say I'm wrong on all my points but offered no evidence as to why.

If you're so confident about fuel cell technology, how much money do you have invested in it?
I have $50k in Tesla.

And I would rather drive a car with batteries than a car with highly flammable gas under extreme pressure. If you get rear-ended with a hydrogen tank, you're fucked. The choice is yours.

And there's a reason every major car manufacturers are making EVs now. And they're breaking sales records. Have you noticed all the new EV ads on the TV? Even this website advertises EVs at the top of the page. You think car manufacturers are stupid? Maybe you should look in the mirror instead.

Electric Cars' Turning Point May Be Happening as U.S. Sales Numbers Start Climb
EVs With a 60 percent rise in new-EV registrations is definitely a sign they're getting closer.

Mass-market EVs have been available in the U.S. for more than a decade, but there have only been small, incremental changes in electric car sales for most of that time.
However, in the first three months of 2022, EV registrations shot up a huge 60 percent even as the overall market was down 18 percent, according to a report by Automotive News.

[Joe Capitalist]

Over the weekend, a video posted on Instagram shows a Tesla Model 3 hauling trees up a dirt path.

It’s no secret that electric vehicles and Tesla products are incredibly popular. But according to a recent Instagram post, farmers have been spotted using Tesla Model 3s instead. Responding to the video, many other farmers commented on their eagerness for the cybertruck to make it to the country.

The video posted by Knut Skinnes shows three Tesla Model 3 s making their way up a narrow dirt path with 20-30 foot long trees in tow. His caption states, “While we wait for the #cybertruck , we have to do our timber work with #model3! Please hurry up, farmers are waiting across the country”

The video makes a couple of good points, even if unintentional. First, this is yet another signal that EVs have capabilities that far surpass what previous gas vehicles have been able to do with their incredible amounts of torque and efficiency. Hook up the same trees to a BMW 3 series, and you may be disappointed in its lackluster performance.

[ExpressLane]

Over the weekend, a video posted on Instagram shows a Tesla Model 3 hauling trees up a dirt path.

It’s no secret that electric vehicles and Tesla products are incredibly popular. But according to a recent Instagram post, farmers have been spotted using Tesla Model 3s instead. Responding to the video, many other farmers commented on their eagerness for the cybertruck to make it to the country.

The video posted by Knut Skinnes shows three Tesla Model 3 s making their way up a narrow dirt path with 20-30 foot long trees in tow. His caption states, “While we wait for the #cybertruck , we have to do our timber work with #model3! Please hurry up, farmers are waiting across the country”

The video makes a couple of good points, even if unintentional. First, this is yet another signal that EVs have capabilities that far surpass what previous gas vehicles have been able to do with their incredible amounts of torque and efficiency. Hook up the same trees to a BMW 3 series, and you may be disappointed in its lackluster performance.

Oh my! How did we ever haul trees before EVs came along.

[Joe Capitalist]

Oh my! How did we ever haul trees before EVs came along.

Have you bought yourself an EV yet, ExcessLies?

One day, you will ExcessLies. One day, you will. Haw, haw...............haw.

[ExpressLane]

Have you bought yourself an EV yet, ExcessLies?

One day, you will ExcessLies. One day, you will. Haw, haw...............haw.

I'll wait . Your model Y is just a model T. In the future there will be far more superior technology and your model Y will just be slide ruler technology in a computer age. Personally I think flow battery powered cars look interesting. And they can be made without destroying the environment unlike lithium batteries. In the meantime I'll haul trees with my diesel power truck.