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Thread: Russia offers Ukraine negotiations for surrender terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    These are terms that, according to Peskov, would enable the achievement of the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine
    How would negotiating with the Ukrainian govt. denazify the country? According to Putin, the Ukrainian govt. IS Nazi.

    President Zelenskyy is a person of Jewish descent and a native Russian speaker. If Putin is right, Zelenskyy should have been 'genocided' twice over by now.

    I suppose one has to be an avid student of Kremlin propaganda - like you - to understand these things.

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    |If you're not aware of the extremist and Neo-Nazi militia elements that have been shelling the Donbass region for the past eight years, following the illegal coup and the removal of Ukraine's elected president , then read up on it. If you are aware of it then your post is just your usual petulant nonsense.

    How's the prosecution of your dear leader coming along ?
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    |If you're not aware of the extremist and Neo-Nazi militia elements that have been shelling the Donbass region for the past eight years, following the illegal coup and the removal of Ukraine's elected president , then read up on it. If you are aware of it then your post is just your usual petulant nonsense.
    You follow Al Jazeera as well as RT, don’t you moon? Here are some snippets from their latest report on blameless Donbas:


    After almost eight years of existence, the “republics” are understood to have evolved into totalitarian, North Korea-like statelets … secret police and “loyal” residents monitor every word, phone call and text message.

    “It looks like the 1930s in the Soviet Union, a classic gulag,” Stanislav Aseyev, a publicist who was kidnapped in 2017 in Donetsk told Al Jazeera. For almost two years he was incarcerated and tortured.

    Thousands of others were tortured and abused in the “cellars”, according to rights groups and witnesses. “The cellars where prisoners are held in Donetsk, and the widespread use of torture, are among the most obvious human rights issues,” said Ivar Dale, a senior policy adviser with the Norwegian Helsinki Committee, a human rights watchdog group.

    The political heyday of Donetsk began in 2010, when its native Viktor Yanukovych became Ukraine’s president and brought cohorts of his cronies to Kyiv. They tried to wrest control of Ukraine’s politics and economy – but triggered months-long protests that ended in February 2014 when the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office.


    Yes, the “People’s Republics” are a regular paradise. You can read the rest here:

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...tist-statelets

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    Tranquilizer ;
    You follow Al Jazeera as well as RT, don’t you moon? Here are some snippets from their latest report on blameless Donbas:
    You mean al Jazeera permits opinion pieces ? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    I understand that your government is trying to have RT closed down.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    The Russian military has in recent years performed far above what American Intel claimed was possible. I am still not seeing any info on how they are doing in this operation, which is interesting.
    Your abilities at offering predictions and good judgements is seriously lacking

    The performance of the Russian army has been shockingly inept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Your abilities at offering predictions and good judgements is seriously lacking

    The performance of the Russian army has been shockingly inept.
    Yes, they're retreating backwards into Ukraine. Real dumbasses.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Now we'll see NATO's agenda.
    Will it advise Zelenskyy to accept and save his country from further damage- or will it throw Ukraine under the bus by continuing to ply it with weapons ?
    Surely, the hypocrisy of NATO's ' self-determination' mantra is obvious to everybody. If Russia waged war on all of Europe for the next year it wouldn't kill as many people or occupy as many countries as NATO has done.
    Back off. Let Ukraine negotiate with its neighbor. Peace before obstinacy.
    NATO can neither force the Ukrainians to fight, nor prevent them from surrendering. If the Ukrainians want to surrender, they can surrender easily. The Ukrainians want to fight, so they are fighting.

    Moon may want them to surrender, but Moon, like NATO, gets no say in this.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    How'd that work out for Napoleon and Hitler, Marshal Halfwitz?
    Very badly. Putin is the invader, like Napoleon and Hitler, and it is not going well for him.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Peace before obstinacy.
    If Russia intends to surrender, that's great. I wouldn't even hit them with war reparations. I would only require two things for them to get sanctions removed (with the West helping Ukraine rebuild):

    (1) Pull out of all illegally occupied territories (not just including their latest attempted land grabs -- the rest of Crimea, as well).
    (2) Hand over Vladimir Putin to the Hague for war crimes prosecution.

    Once Putin is handed over, Russians can get back to their lives. Until then, the pain must continue for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Very badly. Putin is the invader, like Napoleon and Hitler, and it is not going well for him.
    You are comparing Russia's invasion of Ukraine to Napoleon's Russian invasion and/or Nazi Germany's invasion?

    You don't know much about history, I take it.

    Those three campaigns are related in only the most simplistic and basic terms.
    But they are all, vastly different from each other.
    And CERTAINLY from the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    The Russian military has in recent years performed far above what American Intel claimed was possible. I am still not seeing any info on how they are doing in this operation, which is interesting.
    The Russian military has in recent years performed far below what American Intel claimed was possible. Russia was projected to roll to victory in Ukraine within just a couple weeks, at least in terms of seizing the capital and installing a puppet dictatorship. Instead, we're months into this and they just keep shrinking their ambitions.

    This is part of a long-standing pattern. The CIA has CONSISTENTLY overestimated the Russians, going way the hell back to the supposed "missile gap" in the 1950's and '60s. The high point of that was in the 1980's, when the CIA was still portraying the Soviet Union as a powerful empire that was beating us in an arm's race, when in fact they were a paper tiger about to collapse utterly.

    So, the question is why the CIA consistently gets things so wrong. I, personally, think it's deliberate. Our military industries expect over 10% year-over-year growth, and that can only happen if there's constant expansion of military budgets. That, in turn, requires us to obscure the fact we're in an arm's race with ourselves. We need a fellow superpower, perceived to be neck-and-neck with us, so we can justify hiking our military overspend. Thus, we get an endless string of terrible overestimates of Russian military potency. From that perspective, this humiliatingly Russian military meltdown in a weak little neighbor like Ukraine shouldn't have come as a surprise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McRocket View Post
    You are comparing Russia's invasion of Ukraine to Napoleon's Russian invasion and/or Nazi Germany's invasion?

    You don't know much about history, I take it.

    Those three campaigns are related in only the most simplistic and basic terms.
    But they are all, vastly different from each other.
    And CERTAINLY from the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
    I get the sense you never took a history class beyond high school. In reality, Russia's invasion of Ukraine is REMARKABLY similar to Germany's invasion of Poland. In each case, you had a fascist dictator who'd been slowly expanding his country's territory, with feeble push-back from other major nations. In each case, he was surrounded by a cult of personality, where everyone was deathly afraid to tell him he was playing with fire. In each case, he tried to get away with the same thing one too many times. In each case, he sent a military force into a neighboring country to grab land, but with some talking points about deep historical and ethnic ties between his country and the target, to try to justify it. In each case, he finally triggered the wrath of major western nations, and his country suffered horrendously for his mistake. Now I'm just hoping for the part where Putin's charred corpse gets identified by dental records.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mina View Post
    The Russian military has in recent years performed far below what American Intel claimed was possible. Russia was projected to roll to victory in Ukraine within just a couple weeks, at least in terms of seizing the capital and installing a puppet dictatorship. Instead, we're months into this and they just keep shrinking their ambitions.

    This is part of a long-standing pattern. The CIA has CONSISTENTLY overestimated the Russians, going way the hell back to the supposed "missile gap" in the 1950's and '60s. The high point of that was in the 1980's, when the CIA was still portraying the Soviet Union as a powerful empire that was beating us in an arm's race, when in fact they were a paper tiger about to collapse utterly.

    So, the question is why the CIA consistently gets things so wrong. I, personally, think it's deliberate. Our military industries expect over 10% year-over-year growth, and that can only happen if there's constant expansion of military budgets. That, in turn, requires us to obscure the fact we're in an arm's race with ourselves. We need a fellow superpower, perceived to be neck-and-neck with us, so we can justify hiking our military overspend. Thus, we get an endless string of terrible overestimates of Russian military potency. From that perspective, this humiliatingly Russian military meltdown in a weak little neighbor like Ukraine shouldn't have come as a surprise.
    Given your lack of understanding of reality I see no need to invest into you.
    "It matters that you are trying to stop this technocratic slavery that is taking over"<<<<<<<<<<<Maajid Nawaz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Given your lack of understanding of reality I see no need to invest into you.
    Given your fear of even trying to counter any of the things I said, I see that even you perceive that you're badly out of your depth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mina View Post
    If Russia intends to surrender, that's great. I wouldn't even hit them with war reparations. I would only require two things for them to get sanctions removed (with the West helping Ukraine rebuild):

    (1) Pull out of all illegally occupied territories (not just including their latest attempted land grabs -- the rest of Crimea, as well).
    (2) Hand over Vladimir Putin to the Hague for war crimes prosecution.

    Once Putin is handed over, Russians can get back to their lives. Until then, the pain must continue for them.
    You're away with the fairies.
    " First they came for the journalists...
    We don't know what happened after that . "

    Maria Ressa.

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