Members banned from this thread: AProudLefty and ParachuteAdams


Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 57 of 57

Thread: January 25, 2022: DEMOCRATS in the news

  1. #46 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,685
    Thanks
    6,597
    Thanked 12,131 Times in 9,660 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    The Communist Manifesto called for national banks in the short term, which is different from central banks. A central bank is a bank for other banks. A national bank would outlaw other banks, and be the sole bank. After a short period, even that bank would be gotten rid of.

    I do not agree with the Communist Manifesto, just telling you what it says.
    national banks and central banks aren't that different.

    word games.

  2. #47 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    28,528
    Thanks
    3,859
    Thanked 12,024 Times in 8,281 Posts
    Groans
    29
    Groaned 2,673 Times in 2,479 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    whats after banks, according to marx?
    The lack of ability to move capital after full communism is one of the great failures of Marxism. There would be no government, investor owned corporations, or banks to move capital. Maybe workers could provide the capital, but that creates a high bar to get a business off the ground. Not only would the workers have to provide labor, but also capital... Without bringing any capital from their former job.

    Mild socialism could definitely work, but full communism would be an awfully static society. I do not think Marx saw a problem with that. He thought humanity had reached a pinnacle with the industrial revolution, and saw no need for progress beyond that.

  3. #48 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    28,528
    Thanks
    3,859
    Thanked 12,024 Times in 8,281 Posts
    Groans
    29
    Groaned 2,673 Times in 2,479 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    national banks and central banks aren't that different.
    Nationalizing banking is the replacing of private banks with government banks. Central banks are banks to the private banks. If we look at it from the point of view of someone looking for a loan, maybe you will see the difference. Under Marx, if you want a loan, you must go to the government, and ask them for a loan. With a central bank, you cannot go directly to the central bank for a loan. You go to a private bank, and they will give you a loan. If they end up in trouble, they will go to the central bank for a loan to keep from collapsing.

  4. #49 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,685
    Thanks
    6,597
    Thanked 12,131 Times in 9,660 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Nationalizing banking is the replacing of private banks with government banks. Central banks are banks to the private banks. If we look at it from the point of view of someone looking for a loan, maybe you will see the difference. Under Marx, if you want a loan, you must go to the government, and ask them for a loan. With a central bank, you cannot go directly to the central bank for a loan. You go to a private bank, and they will give you a loan. If they end up in trouble, they will go to the central bank for a loan to keep from collapsing.
    but in reality, we have state capture, meaning large corporations control the government.

    so what you advocate and characterize as a win for people is , in fact, a win for large international corporations.

    government has, in this case, been used to concentrate power.

  5. #50 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    28,528
    Thanks
    3,859
    Thanked 12,024 Times in 8,281 Posts
    Groans
    29
    Groaned 2,673 Times in 2,479 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    but in reality, we have state capture, meaning large corporations control the government.
    The absolute opposite of what Marx proposed. Rather than government taking over the corporations, the corporations would take over the government. In fact, Marx warned us that this would happen under capitalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    so what you advocate
    I have specifically not advocated for Marxism.

    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    government has, in this case, been used to concentrate power.
    Marxism would also include a final step of getting rid of all government. I would agree with you, if you believed this was not really feasible. Once so much of the power was given to the government, I doubt it would abolish itself.

  6. #51 | Top
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    107,358
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    This is fascinating, but hardly germane to the thread topic.

    Please start your own thread on the subject if you two want to debate Marx's attitude to banking.

    Thanks.

  7. #52 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,685
    Thanks
    6,597
    Thanked 12,131 Times in 9,660 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    The absolute opposite of what Marx proposed. Rather than government taking over the corporations, the corporations would take over the government. In fact, Marx warned us that this would happen under capitalism.



    I have specifically not advocated for Marxism.



    Marxism would also include a final step of getting rid of all government. I would agree with you, if you believed this was not really feasible. Once so much of the power was given to the government, I doubt it would abolish itself.
    marx was into concentrating power. what you call the entity doesn't matter.

    in the end its a massive fascist monolith that nationalize s costs and privatizes profits.

    public private partnership.

    end fiat currency.

  8. #53 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,685
    Thanks
    6,597
    Thanked 12,131 Times in 9,660 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    This is fascinating, but hardly germane to the thread topic.

    Please start your own thread on the subject if you two want to debate Marx's attitude to banking.

    Thanks.
    so marx was a libertarian who wanted to eliminate government?

  9. #54 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,685
    Thanks
    6,597
    Thanked 12,131 Times in 9,660 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    if you die in the forum you die in real life.

  10. #55 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    28,528
    Thanks
    3,859
    Thanked 12,024 Times in 8,281 Posts
    Groans
    29
    Groaned 2,673 Times in 2,479 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    marx was into concentrating power.
    No, he has been used by people into concentrated power, but Marx himself was into dispersed power. The concept of concentrated power comes in with Leninism.

    Marx believed society would go through a series of stages, with industrial capitalism being one of the later stages. There would be no move towards communism, before an industrial revolution under capitalism. The problem Lenin ran into was Russia had not gone through the industrial revolution yet. The timeline was all wrong, but they did not feel like giving up the revolution.

    So Lenin came up with the idea that power would be centralized with a smaller inner core of party members that would guide the society through an accelerated industrial revolution. The power would be concentrated in a small group.

    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    what you call the entity doesn't matter.
    Maybe not to you, but to communists it is all that matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    end fiat currency.
    The economy is huge. Anything other than fiat currency would be too small to really capture the entire economy. Which means that the entire economy is tied to the ups and downs of one or two percent of the economy.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

  11. #56 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,685
    Thanks
    6,597
    Thanked 12,131 Times in 9,660 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    No, he has been used by people into concentrated power, but Marx himself was into dispersed power. The concept of concentrated power comes in with Leninism.

    Marx believed society would go through a series of stages, with industrial capitalism being one of the later stages. There would be no move towards communism, before an industrial revolution under capitalism. The problem Lenin ran into was Russia had not gone through the industrial revolution yet. The timeline was all wrong, but they did not feel like giving up the revolution.

    So Lenin came up with the idea that power would be centralized with a smaller inner core of party members that would guide the society through an accelerated industrial revolution. The power would be concentrated in a small group.



    Maybe not to you, but to communists it is all that matters.



    The economy is huge. Anything other than fiat currency would be too small to really capture the entire economy. Which means that the entire economy is tied to the ups and downs of one or two percent of the economy.
    yep.

    you're a marxist communist totalitarian banker technocrat dipshit.

    you're the enemy.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Hermes Thoth For This Post:

    Sailor (01-26-2022)

  13. #57 | Top
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    28,528
    Thanks
    3,859
    Thanked 12,024 Times in 8,281 Posts
    Groans
    29
    Groaned 2,673 Times in 2,479 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    yep. you're a marxist communist totalitarian banker technocrat dipshit. you're the enemy.
    A Marxist banker? Really? You do not seem to know what you are talking about.
    Daniel Patrick Moynihan said it best, "You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts."
    Paul Begala, "Politics is show business for ugly people."
    Stephen Colbert, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

Similar Threads

  1. Chinese disease update: 25 January, 2022
    By Legion in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-25-2022, 11:58 AM
  2. Biden Gets His Best Polling News of 2022 From ... Fox News?
    By reagansghost in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-23-2022, 12:10 PM
  3. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-23-2021, 01:33 PM
  4. Democrats See Edge in 2022 Senate Races
    By martin in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-17-2021, 09:53 AM
  5. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-03-2021, 01:45 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •