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Thread: "At Will" only works one way

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    There's plenty of employer can't fire you at will out there too. It's all become too much regulation of the job market in general. When an employer has to hire a specialized company just to pay their employees and meet all the various taxes, fees, and regulations in doing that there's a problem...
    Salty Walty has misrepresented the facts of the case. Substantially.

    Nobody was forced to stay on a job they didn't want and had already quit.. On Friday, their new employer was temporarily ordered not to allow them to start their new jobs until a hearing was held, which it was - on Monday.

    Nobody starved over a two day weekend.

    The original temporary order was granted because state law required the judge to give weight to the request. Wisconsin statute says the court should give "substantial weight" to any adverse impact on public safety when deciding what to require.

    The temporary order was lifted on Monday, and the employees were compensated for the the time they spent testifying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    ???....granted I've been self-employed since 1979, but I've never heard of a job you couldn't walk out on any time you wanted......likewise, can't an employer terminate anyone they want?......admittedly they might have to pay unemployment compensation, but who here has a job the employer can't toss them out of any time they want?.......
    Salty Walty is either ignorant of the facts, or is deliberately misrepresenting them.

    Here: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documen...tro4317792.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    They had no standing to say anything in court, so had no voice. They were required to testify, but that is not a voice, that is being used as evidence for someone else's voice. They were not allowed to defend their rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    ???....granted I've been self-employed since 1979, but I've never heard of a job you couldn't walk out on any time you wanted......likewise, can't an employer terminate anyone they want?......admittedly they might have to pay unemployment compensation, but who here has a job the employer can't toss them out of any time they want?.......
    Exactly. There is no law requiring you to work for an employer who refuses to pay you a market wage. You should always have the right to just find a new job. This is especially true when there is no contract. Sometimes there is a contract for a limited time that you will work, and be paid by a certain employer. In this case, there was no contract, either party could walk away at any time.

    The old employer is accusing the new employer of "poaching" its employees with better pay, but there is nothing illegal about doing that. It is actually illegal to collude to not do that.

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    ThedaCare requested Thursday that McGinnis temporarily block seven of its employees who had applied for and accepted jobs at Ascension from beginning work there on Monday until the health system could find replacements for them.

    The employees were part of an 11-member interventional radiology and cardiovascular team, which can perform procedures to stop bleeding in targeted areas during a traumatic injury or restore blood flow to the brain in the case of a stroke.

    Attorney Sean Bosack, who represented ThedaCare, argued that losing the majority of these employees poses a health threat to the region because the health system's Neenah hospital is a hub for high-level stroke care and care for patients with traumatic injuries.

    Each of them were employed at-will, meaning they were not under an obligation to stay at ThedaCare for a certain amount of time.

    In the complaint, lawyers for ThedaCare wrote that Ascension had "shockingly" chosen to "poach" the employees.

    Ascension said the employees were not recruited but instead decided to apply for open job postings. It was Ascension's understanding that ThedaCare had the opportunity to make counter-offers but declined.

    McGinnis granted ThedaCare's request for the restraining order and held an initial hearing Friday morning.

    McGinnis told lawyers for both health systems they should try to work out a temporary agreement by the end of the day Friday about the employees' status until Monday's hearing.

    Otherwise, he said, the order prohibiting them from going to work at Ascension would be final until a further ruling was made.

    That meant the seven health care workers would not be working at either hospital on Monday.

    "To me, that is a poor result for everyone involved," McGinnis said.

    On Monday afternoon Judge McGinnis dismissed the temporary restraining order, allowing the health care workers to start their new jobs at Ascension.


    https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2022/01/21/what-we-know-ascension-thedacare-court-battle-over-employees/6607417001/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    The old employer is accusing the new employer of "poaching" its employees with better pay.
    And the judge ruled that there was no evidence to support that claim, didn't he?

    In his decision, McGinnis said the inability of the two health systems to come to an agreement without involving the court was "sad." He called the employees "collateral damage" in a dispute between large corporations and said the community does not benefit if they are not able to go to work.

    "They don't want to be here (in court)," McGinnis said. "Somehow, we've put them here."

    A statement from an Ascension spokesperson Monday afternoon said the hospital welcomes its newest associates and was pleased with the court's decision to dismiss the temporary restraining order. ThedaCare had not issued a statement on the ruling at the time this story went to press.




    So, where's the alleged injustice?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuda View Post
    My family is grown
    Walt's family is groaning, in all likelihood.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Walt's family is groaning, in all likelihood.

    Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakuda View Post
    Lol
    Fun fact: Judge McGinnis once jailed a man for 42 days for rolling his eyes at him in court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    An "at will" job means that these workers could drive into work, and find they had no job. They can have their job taken away from them in a second, for almost any reason. There is no requirement to give them a warning.

    So these 7 medical workers at ThedaCare in Wisconsin were at will workers. They would sometimes show up for a scheduled shift, only to be told they would not be needed that day. Their employer saw no need to warn them ahead of time, or to pay them for their useless travel.

    They were nicer to their employer than their employer was to them. They gave their employer almost a month notice before quitting. They also gave their employer a chance to match their new wages. Their employer chose to go to a judge and get a court order saying they could not take new jobs.

    The judge said it was an attempt to force the old employer and the new employer to collude together illegally to push down wages. Are these at will employees, or slaves?

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/colum...ycsrp_catchall
    The first line of the article says it all: "It's hardly a secret that American labor law and workplace practices are designed for the benefit of employers, not workers."

    While I do not support the idea that a person can demand another to hire them, I also don't support the idea that an employer can force people to work.
    "know the truth, and the truth will set you free"

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Dutch Uncle For This Post:

    Walt (01-25-2022)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    IMA FUCKING MORONIC LESION ON THE ASS OF HUMANITY
    Agreed.
    "know the truth, and the truth will set you free"

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Dutch Uncle For This Post:

    guno (01-24-2022)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Uncle View Post
    The first line of the article says it all: "It's hardly a secret that American labor law and workplace practices are designed for the benefit of employers, not workers."

    While I do not support the idea that a person can demand another to hire them, I also don't support the idea that an employer can force people to work.
    Then move

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    Default Salty's Walty's premise crashes in flames




    Judge sides with workers in ThedaCare-Ascension dispute

    An Outagamie County Judge today lifted an injunction that had prevented seven members of ThedaCare’s accredited stroke care team to take jobs with Ascension Wisconsin.

    The two large regional health systems operate the two closest hospitals to Kaukauna.

    According to online court records, Outagamie County Circuit Court Judge Mark McGinnis ruled that ThedaCare had not met its burden to prevent the employees from changing employers.

    “The court removes the injunction and denies the request for relief by ThedaCare,” read the ruling from McGinnis.

    Seven of the stroke care team’s 11 members accepted work at Ascension’s St. Elizabeth Hospital in Appleton, according to the failing New York Times.

    They were supposed to start their new jobs on Friday. However, ThedaCare filed for an injunction, claiming Ascension recruited the employees and asking the court to give it time to hire new employees.

    Last week, McGinnis granted ThedaCare’s request for a temporary restraining order blocking the employees from starting at Ascension this week as planned, and told the lawyers for both parties on Friday to seek a deal.



    https://kaukaunacommunitynews.com/2022/01/24/judge-sides-with-workers-in-thedacare-ascension-dispute/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Exactly. There is no law requiring you to work for an employer who refuses to pay you a market wage. You should always have the right to just find a new job. This is especially true when there is no contract. Sometimes there is a contract for a limited time that you will work, and be paid by a certain employer. In this case, there was no contract, either party could walk away at any time.

    The old employer is accusing the new employer of "poaching" its employees with better pay, but there is nothing illegal about doing that. It is actually illegal to collude to not do that.
    so you admit your thread fail.....sorry I let you waste my time...
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    And the judge ruled that there was no evidence to support that claim, didn't he?
    McGinnis has not ruled that. In fact, he ruled there was enough chance of a "poaching" charge to stick that he was willing to sign an injunction. He backed off that after a few days, but that is a major hurdle... ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING "POACHING" IS NOT ACTUALLY A CRIME.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    In his decision, McGinnis said the inability of the two health systems to come to an agreement without involving the court was "sad."
    Now collusion and price setting are real crimes. McGinnis called on employers to set wages in secret meetings, which is unbelievably anti-market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    He called the employees "collateral damage" in a dispute between large corporations and said the community does not benefit if they are not able to go to work.
    The employees want to work. Their new employer wants to employ them. Their old employer employed them at will, and refused to pay them a going rate. Where is the problem? The judge is the only problem here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    "They don't want to be here (in court)," McGinnis said. "Somehow, we've put them here."
    McGinnis did this to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    So, where's the alleged injustice?
    A judge ordering people not to be allowed to work, in order to try to have employers set prices through collusion.

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