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Thread: 4 key turning points in Western history

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    According to Kenneth Harl, professor of history @ Tulane University, these are the four most important turning points in the history of western civilization:

    1) Emergence of self-government (5th century BCE Greece).

    2) Conversation of Europe to Christianity.

    3) Discovery of the New World.

    4) Industrial revolution.
    Without the material wealth and relative political stability of America, I wonder how much longer the Industrial Revolution would have taken?
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- JFK (5/17/61)

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    wow

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Without the material wealth and relative political stability of America, I wonder how much longer the Industrial Revolution would have taken?
    "This process began in Britain in the 18th century and from there spread to other parts of the world. Although used earlier by French writers, the term Industrial Revolution was first popularized by the English economic historian Arnold Toynbee (1852–83) to describe Britain's economic development from 1760 to 1840.

    Industrial Revolution | Definition, History, Dates, Summary ..."



    This is the Period when the English Land Barons threw the Tenant Farmers off the Land they had Farmed for Generations in Favor of Sheep. (Wool, more profitable now)
    (as a side note, the Tenant Farmers ended up in Cities, where they became Thieves, their Wives became Prostitutes, their Children became Pickpockets)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Enlightenment was Europe rejecting the authoritarianism of Christianity. Thank God.
    No it wasn't. Most of the Enlightenment thinkers, from Locke, to Hobbes, to Ben Franklin, to Montesquieu were believing christians.

    Church oppression largely ended between the late Middle Ages and the early Modern era because Churches had been made subordinate and subservient to the monarchy.

    So what oppression there was in general in the 18th century, was actually political oppression carried out by the monarchy.

    What pissed people off about the church leadership was the corruption and hypocrisy.

    But atheism did not really account for itself very well during the Enlightenment. Once state atheism came to power in the French Revolution, that was when the Great Terror began - state sponsored terrorism and oppression on a scale that horrified people.

    I would say atheism and rejection of the ecclesiastical authority of the Church really didn't happen until the late 19th and early 20th century in Europe. Especially in the wake of WW1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    No it wasn't.
    Yes it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Without the material wealth and relative political stability of America, I wonder how much longer the Industrial Revolution would have taken?
    There are undoubtedly socio-economic reasons it came to England first, then United States and Germany. I have a book on the history of the industrial revolution on my pick list, so I am going to investigate it in greater detail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Yes it was.
    Yes, we had the first amendment in the US Constitution that separated church and state, but the OP refers to western history, not United States history. State churches existed throughout Europe through the 19th century and into the 20th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Yes, we had the first amendment in the US Constitution that separated church and state, but the OP refers to western history, not United States history. State churches existed throughout Europe through the 19th century and into the 20th.
    I never said anything about the US.

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    There is a Lesson to be Learned from the Industrial Revolution.

    'Machines affecting Human Jobs' (like Tenant Farming). 'Humans losing their Ability to Feed their Families' (like Serfs being forced off their Traditional Livelihood)


    --->'Automation Revolution'. It's here. Now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    There are undoubtedly socio-economic reasons it came to England first, then United States and Germany. I have a book on the history of the industrial revolution on my pick list, so I am going to investigate it in greater detail.
    I would ask Mr. Owl (he majored in industrial engineering and loves everything machine or computer and history-related). But he's watching hideous plane crashes right now. lol
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- JFK (5/17/61)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I would ask Mr. Owl (he majored in industrial engineering and loves everything machine or computer and history-related). But he's watching hideous plane crashes right now. lol

    It's not too complex. This guy:
    "Sir Thomas More (7 February 1478 – 6 July 1535), venerated in the Catholic Church as Saint Thomas More, was an English lawyer, judge, social philosopher, author, statesman, and noted Renaissance humanist. He also served Henry VIII as Lord High Chancellor of England from October 1529 to May 1532.
    Died: 6 July 1535 (aged 57); Tower Hill, Londo...
    Monarch: Henry VIII
    Born: 7 February 1478; City of London, England

    Thomas More - Wikipedia"


    ... wrote about Hanging 20 people a day for being 'Thieves'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    I never said anything about the US.
    So you agree that national State Churches were the norm in Europe, long after the Enlightenment, and well into the 19th and 20th centuries

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    So you agree that national State Churches were the norm in Europe, long after the Enlightenment, and well into the 19th and 20th centuries
    can't say I even care. That's your issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I would ask Mr. Owl (he majored in industrial engineering and loves everything machine or computer and history-related). But he's watching hideous plane crashes right now. lol
    I know the German sociologist Max Weber made a case that industrial capitalism came first and foremost to England, Netherlands, Germany, United States in part because of Protestantism, which as a sect of Christianity does promote a focus on productive works in this world and the accumulation of wealth.

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