4 key turning points in Western history

[Cypress]

can't say I even care. That's your issue.

Not only were national State Churches the norm in Europe in the 19th century, long after the Enlightenment Age, but there was still widespread religious discrimination for those who didn't conform to the State church.

Catholics couldn't be accepted into Cambridge university until the 1870s. You basically had to be a member of the State Anglican church.

Soren Kierkegaard in the 1870s famously implied that you were basically a social outcast in Denmark if you weren't a member of the Danish state Lutheran church.

I doubt Protestants could advance in the social and economic pecking order of Catholic Italy and Spain in the 19th century.


The Enlightenment Age did far less than you think in eroding ecclesiastical authority in Europe.


In fact, I think what really eroded ecclesiastical authority and tradition in the West was the new liberalism of the late 19th and 20th century.

[Jack]

Not only were national State Churches the norm in Europe in the 19th century, long after the Enlightenment Age, but there was still widespread religious discrimination for those who didn't conform to the State church.

Catholics couldn't be accepted into Cambridge university until the 1870s. You basically had to be a member of the State Anglican church.

Soren Kierkegaard in the 1870s famously implied that you were basically a social outcast in Denmark if you weren't a member of the Danish state Lutheran church.

I doubt Protestants could advance in the social and economic pecking order of Catholic Italy and Spain in the 19th century.


The Enlightenment Age did far less than you think in eroding ecclesiastical authority in Europe.


In fact, I think what really eroded ecclesiastical authority and tradition in the West was the new liberalism of the late 19th and 20th century.

Cypress. I have a Question. Do you think we are going through another 'Industrial Revolution'? Something that will transform Human Labor? Let's just call it the 'Automation Revolution'.

If you were able to learn something from the Industrial Revolution and the effects on the Working Class, what would you recommend for the 'Automation Revolution'. The one we are in now. The one that will continue.

[Cypress]

Cypress. I have a Question. Do you think we are going through another 'Industrial Revolution'? Something that will transform Human Labor? Let's just call it the 'Automation Revolution'.

If you were able to learn something from the Industrial Revolution and the effects on the Working Class, what would you recommend for the 'Automation Revolution'. The one we are in now. The one that will continue.

Macroeconomics and globalization are not my strong suit, so I do not have any brilliant insights into the question.

[Jack]

Macroeconomics and globalization are not my strong suit, so I do not have any brilliant insights into the question.

OK. I was trying to frame this as an 'Immigration' question. As 'automation' takes over many Human jobs, and Humans are thrown out of their Traditional jobs, do you see adding more people into the 'shrinking Jobs for Humans' market as problematic?

Note: Others have told me that the displaced people should just re-train to 'Robot Repairman'. I was hoping you might have a different opinion.

[Cypress]

OK. I was trying to frame this as an 'Immigration' question. As 'automation' takes over many Human jobs, and Humans are thrown out of their Traditional jobs, do you see adding more people into the 'shrinking Jobs for Humans' market as problematic?

Note: Others have told me that the displaced people should just re-train to 'Robot Repairman'. I was hoping you might have a different opinion.

I think retraining to go from working on an auto assembly line, to building solar panels or wind turbines sounds like a reasonable expectation.

Asking people to give up their steel mill jobs to work in Walmart only benefits the oligarchs.

[Cypress]

The Enlightenment Age did far less than you think in eroding ecclesiastical authority in Europe.


In fact, I think what really eroded ecclesiastical authority and tradition in the West was the new liberalism of the late 19th and 20th century.

The other thing I realized is our conception of the Enlightenment is colored by our historical bias as offspring of Anglo-saxon culture.

The Enlightenment was primarily a phenomena in France, Britain, and to a lesser extent Germany.

It did not really reach very deeply into Mediterranean Europe, Eastern Europe, the Balkans, or Iberian peninsula.

[BidenPresident]

The other thing I realized is our conception of the Enlightenment is colored by our historical bias as offspring of Anglo-saxon culture.

The Enlightenment was primarily a phenomena in France, Britain, and to a lesser extent Germany.

It did not really reach very deeply into Mediterranean Europe, Eastern Europe, the Balkans, or Iberian peninsula.

It really bothers you that everyone is not obsessed with religion like you.

[Cypress]

It really bothers you that everyone is not obsessed with religion like you.

It angers you when I state simple facts that are widely available to anyone who cares to read about it.

The 18th century Enlightenment was largely a regional cultural phenomena limited to France, Britain, and parts of Germany.

It really did not penetrate deeply into the rest of Europe, despite the vaunted and mythic reputation the enlightenment age has acquired on message boards.


If I had to pick a historical phenomena from the early modern era that truly had European-wide profound implications, I would pick the French Revolution.

It was the European seed of nationalism, socialism, democratic principles, universal natural rights. And it's influence was deeply felt not only in western Europe, but in Russia, the Balkans, central Europe, and the Mediterranean.

[BidenPresident]

It angers

You are childish. I probably should ignore you.

[BidenPresident]

Thank God the obsession and authoritarianism of religion was overthrown by the Enlightenment. Reactionaries like Cypress would put Galileo to death.

[Cypress]

Thank God the obsession and authoritarianism of religion was overthrown by the Enlightenment. Reactionaries like Cypress would put Galileo to death.

You have a substantial amount of work to do to improve your reading comprehension and logical deduction.

I just highlighted the fundamental historical importance of the French Revolution, which was largely atheist in it's orientation.

And you read that as bible thumping.

[Geeko Sportivo]

The invention of toilet paper changed everything!

[Jack]

I think retraining to go from working on an auto assembly line, to building solar panels or wind turbines sounds like a reasonable expectation.

Asking people to give up their steel mill jobs to work in Walmart only benefits the oligarchs.

--->Didn't really answer the Question of 'Immigration in the Age of Automation'.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Cypress,

According to Kenneth Harl, professor of history @ Tulane University, these are the four most important turning points in the history of western civilization:

1) Emergence of self-government (5th century BCE Greece).

2) Conversation of Europe to Christianity.

3) Discovery of the New World.

4) Industrial revolution.

If you can still edit the OP you might want to make a correction there, if you agree.

It seems you may have meant to say conversion, not conversation.

I agree with Harl, those were all determining factors in western civilization.

I would add WWI, WWII, the development of nuclear weapons, emergence of home computers, cell phones and the internet and their contribution to the rise of extremist hatred.

Also huge: The development of plastics and the disposable product mindset.

[Cypress]

Hello Cypress,



If you can still edit the OP you might want to make a correction there, if you agree.

It seems you may have meant to say conversion, not conversation.

I agree with Harl, those were all determining factors in western civilization.

I would add WWI, WWII, the development of nuclear weapons, emergence of home computers, cell phones and the internet and their contribution to the rise of extremist hatred.

Also huge: The development of plastics and the disposable product mindset.

As to technological advances, I would rank invention of the printing press as the most important technical advance, hands down, which profoundly changed western politics and culture.