Will the death of R v W kill the Republicans chances?

[Jarod]

If the right of a woman to have an abortion is protected by the Constitution, then any law that has the practical effect of denying women an abortion would be unconstitutional. At a certain point, lowering the limit would have that practical effect. Because by the time the gestation period can be accurately identified, a low enough limit would make abortions impossible.

The argument the Supreme court made in Roe is that the right to privacy of medical decisions is protected, AND the unborn's right to life is protected at some point... so a balance must be struck to determine at what point the unborn's rights begin to outweigh the woman's right to medical decisions, they chose viability.

[Jarod]

I would hope they would use brain activity, the same measure we use to determine when you are no longer a person should be used to determine when you become a person.

Viability will continue to happen earlier and earlier in pregnancy as we get better at ex utero incubation.

Makes sense, it might be as good a measure as any, but I suspect brain activity starts at a very low level early on.

[Damocles]

But that would mean that leftists everywhere would be declared nonviable.

LOL.

[evince]

It's about right and wrong, it's right to kill RoeVWade, it is not constitutional as it has been described. It does not permit for equal protection, it is a fabricated right! Politics be damned, God will allow whom he wants to be in charge of the government, according to his plan, and his will!

AMERICA DOESNT AGREE



YOUR IDIOT LOVE OF GUNS IS KILLING KIDS EVERY DAY


YOU DONT CARE


YOU ARE LYING

[evince]

If the right wing packing of the court ends Roe



The Republican Party will be the party that is the dog who caught the car

[Damocles]

Makes sense, it might be as good a measure as any, but I suspect brain activity starts at a very low level early on.

I think it would depend on what type of brain activity. While enough to make your heartbeat is early on, brain stem activity is not enough to claim "life" at the end of life. Some folks who are brain dead have heartbeats, etc. I think the level of brain activity where the fetus can begin to "wonder" (as I noted earlier) begins sometime around 18 weeks, giving nearly 5 months before you hit "person" and that is surely enough time for them to make such a decision.

But heck, I don't know what they will eventually decide, hence my interest.

The Christians read into the verse where their god says the "knew you before you were in in the womb" and thus believe that it is a person even before then... They will never be happy with any decision other than "none"...

The Buddhists will be much like me. If it can "wonder" then it is a person.

[evince]

A family has the right to pull the plug



Surely a human in which the cells reside has some rights huh

[evince]

Women are beings with full rights or they are not



I say they are



No fucking right wing political moves for powers sake will change that



The party will die


It’s beginning to feel like the party just wants to have its plug pulled



It’s obviously becoming brain dead

[Jarod]

I think it would depend on what type of brain activity. While enough to make your heartbeat is early on, brain stem activity is not enough to claim "life" at the end of life. Some folks who are brain dead have heartbeats, etc. I think the level of brain activity where the fetus can begin to "wonder" (as I noted earlier) begins sometime around 18 weeks, giving nearly 5 months before you hit "person" and that is surely enough time for them to make such a decision.

But heck, I don't know what they will eventually decide, hence my interest.

The Christians read into the verse where their god says the "knew you before you were in in the womb" and thus believe that it is a person even before then... They will never be happy with any decision other than "none"...

The Buddhists will be much like me. If it can "wonder" then it is a person.

Its a well thought out position and one I can get onboard with, however I am more comfortable with Government using science than Religion to make this decision.

If you take what some Christians (I will point out that many do not) claim about God knowing you, then contraception should also be banned.

I know many pro-choice Christians who believe viability is the point of life starting, plenty who believe birth is the point.

[Damocles]

Its a well thought out position and one I can get onboard with, however I am more comfortable with Government using science than Religion to make this decision.

If you take what some Christians (I will point out that many do not) claim about God knowing you, then contraception should also be banned.

I know many pro-choice Christians who believe viability is the point of life starting, plenty who believe birth is the point.

To me it just makes sense to use the same measure for when life starts as to when it ends.

[Concart]

The argument the Supreme court made in Roe is that the right to privacy of medical decisions is protected, AND the unborn's right to life is protected at some point... so a balance must be struck to determine at what point the unborn's rights begin to outweigh the woman's right to medical decisions, they chose viability.

Right, I get that. And I also get there are two separate issues here. Does a woman have the right to an abortion, and at what point is that right NOT absolute. If the right is never absolute, then effectively the answer to the second is 'no' and Roe v Wade is gone.

[Jarod]

To me it just makes sense to use the same measure for when life starts as to when it ends.

Its a good argument.

[Concart]

To me it just makes sense to use the same measure for when life starts as to when it ends.

When does it end?

[Jarod]

Right, I get that. And I also get there are two separate issues here. Does a woman have the right to an abortion, and at what point is that right NOT absolute. If the right is never absolute, then effectively the answer to the second is 'no' and Roe v Wade is gone.

yup, I agree, except it is the right to privacy from government involvement in her medical decisions.

[Concart]

Its a good argument.

And it effectively removes a woman's right to an abortion, if heartbeat is the measure. The heartbeat begins as early as 3 weeks, but can't be detected until six or seven weeks. By the time you can determine whether there is a heartbeat, the door is closed. If that's the measure, Roe v Wade is dead.