Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 57

Thread: Can they deny the 1st Amendment right for hate speech felons?

  1. #16 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Shall not be infringed applies to your right to keep and bear arms. If I have a revolver that is an arm I keep and bear. Shall not be infringed does not say any type of arms.

    But, more seriously, I am going by state and federal laws that regulate firearms.

    Just as the Constitution allows reasonable restrictions on free speech, free press, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, protection against search and seizure...the same reasonable restrictions apply to firearms.
    What, exactly, are those arms? A man served his time for stabbing someone with a knife. Does that mean he is denied the right to own and use knives?

  2. #17 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    What, exactly, are those arms? A man served his time for stabbing someone with a knife. Does that mean he is denied the right to own and use knives?
    More to the point. Is he denied the right to own knives or any kind of weapons to protect his family?

  3. #18 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    20,718
    Thanks
    1,054
    Thanked 5,657 Times in 4,437 Posts
    Groans
    296
    Groaned 184 Times in 180 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    He's in prison.
    There are a lot of killers who are not. Or, those who used a gun to commit robbery, sexual assault...

  4. #19 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    There are a lot of killers who are not. Or, those who used a gun to commit robbery, sexual assault...
    That's different justifications. Still there's this pesky "shall not be infringed" part.

    The SCOTUS can use that as a justification while ignoring the Constitution. The fact remains that the majority of those felons have never used guns or any kind of weapons.

  5. #20 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    20,718
    Thanks
    1,054
    Thanked 5,657 Times in 4,437 Posts
    Groans
    296
    Groaned 184 Times in 180 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    That's different justifications. Still there's this pesky "shall not be infringed" part.

    The SCOTUS can use that as a justification while ignoring the Constitution. The fact remains that the majority of those felons have never used guns or any kind of weapons.
    You can push for your state to remove those restrictions from felons.

    None of the Bill of Rights is interpreted 100% literally. Would you allow free speech to include threats? What about the pesky "no law abridging free speech" 1st amendment? Reasonable restrictions apply to every constitutional right. The 1st says no law restricting free press but we restrict child pornography.

  6. #21 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    38,053
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 18,927 Times in 13,194 Posts
    Groans
    3
    Groaned 832 Times in 791 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    The 2nd allows for regulations on firearm ownership determined by legislation. All speech is not constitutionally protected, but those exceptions do not include being a felon. There is obviously more justification for limiting felons from possessing firearms than free speech.

    Technically, there is no constitutional right to vote. The Constitution gives the states the power to determine voting qualifications.
    The problem with taking someone's 2nd amendment rights is that today, every felon has their right to own and possess a firearm stripped from them. Doesn't matter what their crime was or how long ago it occurred.

    This means someone who say committed credit card fraud and got convicted of a felony for it loses their right to bear a firearm, even though their crime had nothing to do with firearms, violence, or anything related to that.
    Even if a state restores someone's rights in full or otherwise, the feds will still come in and slap felon with a firearm on them if they are caught with one.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to T. A. Gardner For This Post:

    AProudLefty (10-21-2021)

  8. #22 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    You can push for your state to remove those restrictions from felons.

    None of the Bill of Rights is interpreted 100% literally. Would you allow free speech to include threats? What about the pesky "no law abridging free speech" 1st amendment? Reasonable restrictions apply to every constitutional right. The 1st says no law restricting free press but we restrict child pornography.
    They tried that with Larry Flynt. See Hustler Magazine, Inc. v. Falwell. It was a very important case. Thank God the SCOTUS had a sense that day.

    Watch The People vs. Larry Flynt.

  9. #23 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    20,718
    Thanks
    1,054
    Thanked 5,657 Times in 4,437 Posts
    Groans
    296
    Groaned 184 Times in 180 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    They tried that with Larry Flynt. See Hustler Magazine, Inc. v. Falwell. It was a very important case. Thank God the SCOTUS had a sense that day.

    Watch The People vs. Larry Flynt.
    That case was a parody of a commercial. It did not involve child pornography.

  10. #24 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    That case was a parody of a commercial. It did not involve child pornography.
    CP is an extreme example.

  11. #25 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    The problem with taking someone's 2nd amendment rights is that today, every felon has their right to own and possess a firearm stripped from them. Doesn't matter what their crime was or how long ago it occurred.

    This means someone who say committed credit card fraud and got convicted of a felony for it loses their right to bear a firearm, even though their crime had nothing to do with firearms, violence, or anything related to that.
    Even if a state restores someone's rights in full or otherwise, the feds will still come in and slap felon with a firearm on them if they are caught with one.
    See that's what I am talking about.

    The same justifications can be used against the First Amendment right and any other rights. For example, the right to vote. Why is that being denied?

  12. #26 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    38,053
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 18,927 Times in 13,194 Posts
    Groans
    3
    Groaned 832 Times in 791 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    See that's what I am talking about.

    The same justifications can be used against the First Amendment right and any other rights. For example, the right to vote. Why is that being denied?
    Where is the right to vote being denied? The only agreement on that I can give is once a felon is off parole and out of prison they should be able to vote. While on parole or in prison they shouldn't. Parole is just a form of "community custody" where the person is still subject to state control. I'd even say someone on welfare--full welfare-- might not be able to vote as they too are wards of the state.

  13. #27 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Where is the right to vote being denied? The only agreement on that I can give is once a felon is off parole and out of prison they should be able to vote. While on parole or in prison they shouldn't. Parole is just a form of "community custody" where the person is still subject to state control. I'd even say someone on welfare--full welfare-- might not be able to vote as they too are wards of the state.
    Right. After they have served their times, why is their right to vote being denied?

  14. #28 | Top
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    38,053
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 18,927 Times in 13,194 Posts
    Groans
    3
    Groaned 832 Times in 791 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Right. After they have served their times, why is their right to vote being denied?
    It shouldn't be, but that is a state-by-state issue, not a federal one. The feds deny felons any chance of having their 2nd amendment rights restored.

  15. #29 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    86,919
    Thanks
    35,051
    Thanked 21,761 Times in 17,091 Posts
    Groans
    985
    Groaned 2,342 Times in 2,261 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    It shouldn't be, but that is a state-by-state issue, not a federal one. The feds deny felons any chance of having their 2nd amendment rights restored.
    What, in the Constitution, allows the US government to deny their right to vote?

    If the SCOTUS can deny them the right to own guns, they can also deny their right to free speech.

  16. #30 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    20,718
    Thanks
    1,054
    Thanked 5,657 Times in 4,437 Posts
    Groans
    296
    Groaned 184 Times in 180 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    CP is an extreme example.
    Yes, it is. But if something is an absolute right (shall not be infringed) it also applies to extreme situations. The courts have ruled computer generated child pornography is protected (because it does not harm any children).

    To be less extreme we can use adult pornography. What about a law prohibiting animal sacrifices for religious purposes?

    If the right to keep and bear arms shall not be extreme how can we restrict minors?

    Either our constitutional rights are absolute (Justice Hugo Black) or they are not absolute and can be restricted.

Similar Threads

  1. Hate Crime & Hate Speech Ethics Were Invented By Socialists
    By Flanders in forum Religion, Philosophy, and Ethics
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 07-29-2019, 10:15 AM
  2. Hate speech
    By Evmetro in forum General Politics Forum
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 06-20-2018, 05:57 AM
  3. The slippery slope Liberals walk: Actually, hate speech is protected speech
    By Truth Detector in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-20-2017, 01:39 PM
  4. Portland mayor - "Hate speech is not protected by the First Amendment"
    By Text Drivers are Killers in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-01-2017, 01:09 AM
  5. liberals hate first amendment
    By SmarterthanYou in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 221
    Last Post: 06-10-2009, 09:31 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •