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Thread: When the Constitution was trashed and how we may never recover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    I didn't say anything about accepting it. I said it exists and is enforced.

    Do you accept the congressional power to regulate immigration? That is not in the Constitution.
    it actually IS in at least a couple of places.

    Art. 1, Sec. 8, clause 4...
    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

    Art. 1, Sec 9, para, 1.

    The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
    In a combat situation it is about 16 times better to do something useful and violent right away than to wait and figure out something even more useful and violent later.
    “whenever you put your faith in big government for any reason, sooner or later you end up an apologist for mass murder.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    it actually IS in at least a couple of places.

    Art. 1, Sec. 8, clause 4...
    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

    Art. 1, Sec 9, para, 1.

    The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

    Neither of those are about immigration. Naturalization means rules establishing citizenship. Naturalization laws (from 1790) did not include anything about immigration. Naturalization and immigration are not the same thing.

    The other refers to the importation of slaves. Congress could not prohibit the importation of slavery for 20 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Naturalization and immigration are not the same thing.


    those are exactly the same thing.............
    In a combat situation it is about 16 times better to do something useful and violent right away than to wait and figure out something even more useful and violent later.
    “whenever you put your faith in big government for any reason, sooner or later you end up an apologist for mass murder.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    tell us how 'well regulated militia' was defined and presented to all of we the people when it was ratified...................
    Again, for this idiot BidenPresident:

    The 2nd amendment discusses two related rights.

    The right of a government to defend itself. They do this by organizing militias (or army). Each State specifically has the right to defend itself.
    The right of an individual to defend themselves. They do this with arms, meaning weapons. It can be ANY weapon of their choice. Defense includes defense against a rogue government.

    Militias organized by States are well regulated. The State creates them, organizes their structure, and has a leader (the governor of that State). The State also specifies their purpose and targets. It controls how it's members are selected and organized. By nature, militias created by States are 'well regulated'. The ability to create militias is necessary for a free State...in other words for a State that has sovereignty, even if that sovereignty is part of a Union of other States. A government's right to defend itself is an inherent right. It comes as a result of States being made up of people.

    Individuals have the right to keep and bear arms. That means weapons. ANY type of weapon. It can be a knife, sword, gun, artillery, explosive, or nuclear bomb.
    That is a right that does not come from the Constitution. It comes as an inherent right.

    The Constitution only specifically prohibits the government (including State governments) from messing with either of these rights.
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    Constitution worship is no less stupid than religion.
    The Constitution is law, dumbass. Not a religion. Redefinition fallacy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    Since i'm not a religious christian, I wouldn't know what you're talking about, however, the framers wrote that Constitution with first hand experience of how government and standing armies impede and trample liberty. that is why it is paramount and MUST be read with a bias towards liberty
    He is referring to the Mount where Moses received the Ten Commandments from God. It is said that Mt Sinai is that mountain. Of course, we really don't know that mountain it was, or even if it happened that way at all.

    Well put, relating the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence and the Federal Papers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    If they belong to a militia
    There is no 'if' clause. You are again discarding the 2nd amendment (and the Constitution with it).
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    how often do you get beat about the head and shoulders with facts and logic? that's 1 of 2 reasons to put someone on ignore
    Claiming who is on an ignore list is just fapping. Ignore lists do not prevent anyone from stating their philosophies, opinions, or discussing something like the Constitution. All they really do is take the person who made the ignore list out of the conversation. It just lets other talk behind their back, so to speak.

    I don't bother with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    The Articles of Confederation would more fit the framework created by the Declaration by having a very weak central government with most powers remaining in the colonies. The Constitution altered that framework by giving several powers to the central government not contained in the Articles.

    Many saw this as a betrayal and illegal because the function of the constitutional convention was only to "revise" the Articles and not write a new constitution. Also, the Articles required a unanimous vote to make any changes and the Constitution only required 9 votes for ratification.

    So, if there are only 48 states as you claim because states disobeyed their own constitutions, the U. S. Constitution never went into effect because it disobeyed the Articles. Right--both are farfetched.
    The Articles of Confederation was destroyed by the owners of that confederation, the States. It was replace by the Constitution of the United States, also owned by the States.

    Any State government the discards it's constitution is no longer a State. There is no constitution in force to declare and define that State government.

    This has happened in the former States of California and New York. I call them the SOTC and the SOTNY now. The Socialist Oligarchy of the Territory of California. The SOTC.
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    then be a student. research and learn. read all the commentaries about what the 2nd Amendment means. come back to us educated
    Wow. THERE's a tall order!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    No, because it is the function of each state to determine criminal law. None include abortion under murder laws.
    Irrelevant. Abortion for the sake of convenience is murder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    How did I discount them?
    You discarded any reference to them as valid. RQAA. Stop asking this question. It has already been answered
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Jefferson was an anti-federalists and the framers of the Constitution were federalists.
    Jefferson helped to WRITE THE CONSTITUTION, dumbass!
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Their attempts to protect liberty did not satisfy most anti-federalists because the new document did not contain anything protecting our basic liberties;
    Yes it does, dumbass!
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    thus, the framers agreed to add the Bill of Rights to get their support.
    The Bill of Rights is more specific, but does the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Those constitutional rights protect our liberties, not the Declaration.
    They both do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Right. That is why most gun laws are state regulations.
    Any law limiting or banning guns or any other weapon is unconstitutional.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Sorry, I assumed you agreed with the claims of Into the Night that there are only 48 states. That makes him a minority of one.
    Argument of ignorance fallacy. You do not get to speak for everyone on the planet or even everyone in the States of America.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    then do you disagree with a federal prohibition on the ownership of automatic weapons?


    I did not see him stating that, so my apologies as well for my assumptions
    I have stated there are currently only 48 States of America. The SOTC and the SOTNY are no longer States of America. They have no functioning constitution and their governments are currently both oligarchies. Since Oregon is also heading in this direction, there may soon be only 47.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Yes, because federal gun legislation does exist.
    You are now locked in paradox. Which is it, dude?
    Arguing both sides of a paradox is irrational.
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Neither of those are about immigration. Naturalization means rules establishing citizenship. Naturalization laws (from 1790) did not include anything about immigration. Naturalization and immigration are not the same thing.
    One cannot exist without the other, dumbass. You are trying to describe a one-sided coin. That's irrational.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    The other refers to the importation of slaves. Congress could not prohibit the importation of slavery for 20 years.
    It is not referring to slaves. It is referring to ANYONE coming to the United States for any reason.
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
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