Reality check on electric cars

[Lionfish]

[Into the Night]

These children are slaves too.

[T. A. Gardner]

Insurer GEICO has just announced it will no longer repair Tesla cars involved in an accident. They are saying it's cheaper to total them, even for relatively minor damage.

A Tesla owner in Phoenix, Arizona, has been having a hard time getting his car repaired. The accident wasn’t his fault yet Tesla-certified repair shops are not accepting Geico due to the insurance company refusing to pay the costs to repair a Tesla. Although the Tesla owner wasn’t at fault for the accident, he is stuck with $2,100 in damages.

In the tweet below from our friends at Wham Baam TeslaCam, you can see the dashcam footage from the Tesla. Teslarati reached out to Wham Baam TeslaCam who shared the story with us. The story will also be in Sunday’s episode of Wham Baam TeslaCam.

https://www.teslarati.com/phoenix-tesla-repair-geico/

When the only car more expensive to insure than a Tesla is a Maserati, I'd say you're better off with a Maserati. At least it will be really valuable in 10 years while your Tesla will be worth next to nothing.

[T. A. Gardner]

This keeps happening, and people STILL want to charge these things in their homes!

Question for you: As an electrician, do you feel it's unsafe to install such chargers, knowing the fire risk they present to the household? This is your professional opinion I am asking about. Not about the electrical code (maybe it should be in the code? Perhaps even in the NFPA code?). I know I have to keep this weight of conflagrants in a secured type 3 magazine that is bullet resistant and double locked and at least 300 ft away from any living quarters, according to the NFPA 1124 code. I also have to keep logs of everything that goes in and out of that magazine as well, and I can't deliver any such materials to anything other than a licensed pyrotechnician.

If the install is done correctly, and you have the garage properly fire rated to code, it probably isn't much of a risk. I'd suggest installing sprinklers in a garage where you do battery charging as a precaution, however. This could be done using 2 to 6 sprinklers for a 1 to 3 car garage, and PEX tied into the house water system. That along with eliminating using the garage for most storage (like that'll happen in your typical home ) would likely eliminate any serious fire hazard to the home.

[Lionfish]

[Into the Night]

If the install is done correctly, and you have the garage properly fire rated to code, it probably isn't much of a risk. I'd suggest installing sprinklers in a garage where you do battery charging as a precaution, however. This could be done using 2 to 6 sprinklers for a 1 to 3 car garage, and PEX tied into the house water system. That along with eliminating using the garage for most storage (like that'll happen in your typical home ) would likely eliminate any serious fire hazard to the home.

Sprinklers on an electrical fire???????!? Garages aren't fireproof!

Providing electricity for something that is a such fire hazard doesn't concern you?

Do you do any work on silos? Explosives magazines? Fuel depots?

[T. A. Gardner]

Sprinklers on an electrical fire???????!? Garages aren't fireproof!

Garages are required to have fire rated Type X drywall between the livable portion of a home and the garage as well as the roof of it. All electrical boxes are required to be metal in those walls. A self-closing door that is fire rated must be used between the livable portion of the house and garage. Electrically, the first 24" from the floor of the garage is a Class 1 Division 1 hazardous location meaning you either have to install everything in NEMA 4X (gas tight / explosion proof) fittings, or put all electrics more than 24" off the floor.

That makes a garage--done properly--a 30 to 60 minute fire rated space. That is, the fire will take 30 to 60 minutes to break through the barrier and spread. Adding sprinklers would suppress the fire sufficiently to allow a response from the fire department and prevent the fire from burning down your home and even, most likely, totally destroying your garage.

If you live in an older home that predates this stuff, I'd suggest upgrading it if you install a battery charger.

[Into the Night]

Garages are required to have fire rated Type X drywall between the livable portion of a home and the garage as well as the roof of it. All electrical boxes are required to be metal in those walls. A self-closing door that is fire rated must be used between the livable portion of the house and garage. Electrically, the first 24" from the floor of the garage is a Class 1 Division 1 hazardous location meaning you either have to install everything in NEMA 4X (gas tight / explosion proof) fittings, or put all electrics more than 24" off the floor.

That makes a garage--done properly--a 30 to 60 minute fire rated space. That is, the fire will take 30 to 60 minutes to break through the barrier and spread. Adding sprinklers would suppress the fire sufficiently to allow a response from the fire department and prevent the fire from burning down your home and even, most likely, totally destroying your garage.

If you live in an older home that predates this stuff, I'd suggest upgrading it if you install a battery charger.

No such requirement in the current electrical code (except perhaps a local requirement).
NEMA 4X is not gas tight nor explosion proof.

Sprinklers on an electrical fire is a BAD idea.

[Melchizedek = Michael]

E - Cars are the future

[T. A. Gardner]

No such requirement in the current electrical code (except perhaps a local requirement).
NEMA 4X is not gas tight nor explosion proof.

https://intrinsicallysafestore.com/b...-what-is-nema/

4X is what you use in a residential garage. NEMA 7 is for things like commercial spray paint booths and enclosures.

Sprinklers on a fire are fine. Electrical fires go out the second the breaker trips, then they are Alpha or Bravo fires. In terms of a Tesla, if the battery is on fire, the car is on fire. 90% of that fire is class A and water is fine. The fire department will use water too.
If the charging station is on fire, it's only a C fire (electrical) until the breaker trips, and that's pretty much immediate. Then it's an A fire and again, water is fine.

The primary purpose of the sprinklers isn't so much to put the fire out as to prevent it spreading.

Sprinklers on an electrical fire is a BAD idea.[/QUOTE]

[Into the Night]

...repairing damaged quoting...

Sprinklers on an electrical fire is a BAD idea.

https://intrinsicallysafestore.com/b...-what-is-nema/
4X is what you use in a residential garage.

Nope. NEMA 4X is not required by the current electrical code in residential garages (except perhaps locally).

NEMA 7 is for things like commercial spray paint booths and enclosures.

Nice attempt at dodging. YOU said NEMA 4X is explosion proof. It isn't.

Sprinklers on a fire are fine.

Not on an electrical fire.

Electrical fires go out the second the breaker trips,

No breaker on batteries. The breaker on the service entrance is the fuse on the pole. It can get pretty spectacular before that thing blows.

then they are Alpha or Bravo fires.

Not for battery fires.

In terms of a Tesla, if the battery is on fire, the car is on fire.

Correct. Sprinklers are a BAD idea. Water on an electrical fire is a BAD idea.

90% of that fire is class A and water is fine.

WRONG. It is a class C fire.

The fire department will use water too.

Which only exacerbates the problem. An intelligent fire chief will use the water on the house, forget the car.

If the charging station is on fire, it's only a C fire (electrical) until the breaker trips, and that's pretty much immediate.

Not talking about the charging station.

Then it's an A fire and again, water is fine.

No breaker.

The primary purpose of the sprinklers isn't so much to put the fire out as to prevent it spreading.

Sprinklers on a class C fire is a BAD idea.

[Into the Night]

E - Cars are the future

They are already failing (again).

* They are too expensive.
* They take too long to 'refuel' (which is to say charge up).
* Most have poor to no towing capability. Those that do are VERY expensive.
* Their batteries require lithium (limited supply, and only from countries unfriendly to the States), and cobalt (even more limited). Large numbers of electric cars on the road would exhaust supplies, making lithium and cobalt (and the cars) even MORE expensive.
* They have terrible resale value.
* They cannot handle remote areas well, since there is no charging station. Charging off a standard outlet can take days.
* They are not a practical cross country car or work vehicle (one that has to run all day).
* The batteries have a limited lifespan, and are VERY expensive to replace.
* They are a fire hazard when charging.
* They are a fire hazard if the battery becomes wet or damaged (from, say, inclement weather).
* The electrical supply is not capable of charging that many cars.
* Installing a charging system in your house capable of reducing the charging time to hours instead of days requires an electrician to wire it (permits and everything included).

In a typical city, about 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. The rest run on gas or diesel (with a few running on natural gas or hydrogen).

Both oil and natural gas are renewable fuels.

[T. A. Gardner]

...repairing damaged quoting...


Nope. NEMA 4X is not required by the current electrical code in residential garages (except perhaps locally).

Nice attempt at dodging. YOU said NEMA 4X is explosion proof. It isn't.

Not on an electrical fire.

No breaker on batteries. The breaker on the service entrance is the fuse on the pole. It can get pretty spectacular before that thing blows.

Not for battery fires.

Correct. Sprinklers are a BAD idea. Water on an electrical fire is a BAD idea.

WRONG. It is a class C fire.

Which only exacerbates the problem. An intelligent fire chief will use the water on the house, forget the car.

Not talking about the charging station.

No breaker.

Sprinklers on a class C fire is a BAD idea.

[Melchizedek = Michael]

They are already failing (again).

* They are too expensive.
* They take too long to 'refuel' (which is to say charge up).
* Most have poor to no towing capability. Those that do are VERY expensive.
* Their batteries require lithium (limited supply, and only from countries unfriendly to the States), and cobalt (even more limited). Large numbers of electric cars on the road would exhaust supplies, making lithium and cobalt (and the cars) even MORE expensive.
* They have terrible resale value.
* They cannot handle remote areas well, since there is no charging station. Charging off a standard outlet can take days.
* They are not a practical cross country car or work vehicle (one that has to run all day).
* The batteries have a limited lifespan, and are VERY expensive to replace.
* They are a fire hazard when charging.
* They are a fire hazard if the battery becomes wet or damaged (from, say, inclement weather).
* The electrical supply is not capable of charging that many cars.
* Installing a charging system in your house capable of reducing the charging time to hours instead of days requires an electrician to wire it (permits and everything included).

In a typical city, about 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. The rest run on gas or diesel (with a few running on natural gas or hydrogen).

Both oil and natural gas are renewable fuels.

They said all that when cars first started

[Into the Night]

They said all that when cars first started

Speaking for the dead now?????!?