Reality check on electric cars

[Nordberg]

I have driven ICE cars with 350,000 miles on them. They're just fine. They are using the original engine.

I really don't care about warranties. I do my own work on my own cars. Yes, they use gas and oil. So does the Tesla. You have to charge them, remember?

Define this 'pollution'. Why is it 'pollution'?

I was waiting for you to use an anomaly and suggest it is normal. That is how honest your debates are, about zero. Consumers Reports says a well-maintained ICE will do about 150K. More advanced cars like EVs can easily reach 300K. You have no touch with reality and fact.

[Nordberg]

False authority fallacy.
If Switzerland decides to ban electric cars, it will go into effect.

There you go again. Switzerland is worried about Putin's war slashing their oil supplies badly. They have set up a 3 step process dealing with it. The first step is minor. The second is a little more severe. The 3rd part suggests as part of the act that electric car owners only use them for important trips, like grocery shopping and doctors' appointments. IT DOES NOT BAN ELECTRIC CARS AT ALL.

[Into the Night]

Handjob you are a fucking imbecile.

Insulting people changes nothing.

[Into the Night]

I was waiting for you to use an anomaly and suggest it is normal. That is how honest your debates are, about zero. Consumers Reports says a well-maintained ICE will do about 150K. More advanced cars like EVs can easily reach 300K. You have no touch with reality and fact.

I have driven ICE cars with 350,000 miles on them. False authority fallacy. Consumer Reports magazine does not drive my cars. No EV will reach 300k. You are just making shit up again. I have a Ford pickup with 143,000 miles on it. Once I do a top end overhaul on it, it can easily go out to 250,000 miles. The only reason I have to do a top end overhaul on it is because the last owner didn't take care of it and the last shop botched the job. I have to do it again, but right this time.

Total cost of parts will be about $2000. Sure a LOT cheaper than replacing your battery!

That truck will be able to haul loads up to 2.5 tons with no problem for as long a distance as I like. Refueling it takes minutes, not the hours that an EV would. That workhorse of a truck is cheaper too!

[Into the Night]

There you go again. Switzerland is worried about Putin's war slashing their oil supplies badly.

Why worry? It's already happened!

They have set up a 3 step process dealing with it. The first step is minor. The second is a little more severe. The 3rd part suggests as part of the act that electric car owners only use them for important trips, like grocery shopping and doctors' appointments. IT DOES NOT BAN ELECTRIC CARS AT ALL.

Switzerland is considering banning the EV.

[gfm7175]

Yeah, in over 200,000 miles.

Miles is not a measure of time.

That is 17 years at 12k a year.

Those batteries do not last 17 years. Try again.

ICEs do not last that long.

Yes, they do. They can and do last even longer than that, in fact. My very first car when I was 16 years old was a 1999 Mercury Grand Marquis. I used it for driving to school and work. When I built up enough money to purchase my own vehicle, I returned it to my dad and he kept driving it. It is now finally too rusted/broken down to the point where it isn't worth the effort of fixing it up. It is now the end of 2022. That's 24 years, dude. It's possible to get an even longer lifespan out of such vehicles, especially if one isn't exposing them to the drenched-in-salt-roads known as Wisconsin winters.

I have a 2007 Lincoln Town Car, so that car of mine is already 16 years old and it still has plenty of life left in it yet. My 2011 Toyota Rav4 is now 12 years old; quite young!

They are warranted for far, far fewer miles.

No they aren't, and a warranty period is not a lifespan, dude. ICE vehicles last for much longer than they are warrantied for.

They need a lot more maintenance and repair.

Do they?

They use expensive gas and oil.

... and EV's use even more expensive electricity and battery packs.

They pollute.

Define "pollute".

Describe precisely how an EV is "not polluting" while an ICE is "polluting".

You are full of shit.

[gfm7175]

I was waiting for you to use an anomaly and suggest it is normal.

It's not an anomaly. It is very possible for ICE vehicles to reach the mileage of which he speaks. I've personally seen ICE vehicles get to or above 250K miles on a VERY regular basis, and that's in Wisconsin, which seems to be the "road salt capital of the world". Trucks were out salting the roads like crazy just this morning, as we're getting some snow atm.

That is how honest your debates are, about zero.

Nah, that's how honest YOU are, which IS zero.

Consumers Reports says a well-maintained ICE will do about 150K.

Consumer Reports is completely full of shit then, as every single ICE that I or my immediate family has ever owned and kept for its lifespan has easily gotten over 150K miles on it. Getting 250K miles out of a vehicle is quite common for us.

More advanced cars like EVs can easily reach 300K.

You are SOOOOOOOOO full of shit right now it's hilarious.

You have no touch with reality and fact.

Your issue, not his. I didn't expect it from you though, since you can't even define either term.

[Nordberg]

You are flipping socks mid-discussion. Why? I guess your right-wing beliefs supplant facts. How sad. You cannot learn or discuss. You just say opposites and insult patting yourself on the back convinced you have done well. How sad. I wonder if it is easy for you to lie. https://www.carscoops.com/2022/12/sw...of-a-blackout/

[Into the Night]

Do they?

ICE cars need to have their engine oil changed every few thousand miles, due to exposing that oil to the burning temperatures in the cylinders (producing ash and acids, making the oil opaque and black). Failure to do so will cause sludging in the engine, which mostly affects the top end components. The coolant on these cars is pretty good these days. It doesn't need changing for several years. The transmission oil doesn't need changing unless a problem develops in the transmission. The pumpkin oil doesn't need changing unless it's being used for heavy duty or getting submerged in water (such as when launching a boat...something a Tesla can't do!).

Tesla cars also use oil and coolant. They also require changing, but the oil can last for years and the coolant even longer. The oil on a Tesla is like a transmission oil. The coolant is not designed to be changed easily.
Most EV's use liquid coolant for their batteries.

Maintenance on any vehicle mostly consists of cleaning it, rotating and changing out worn tires, body maintenance and repair, and of course refueling (or recharging) it.

What he fails to mention about maintenance beyond this is that EV's require maintenance work to be done at specialized shops or the dealer. EXPENSIVE!
Maintenance on an ICE car can be done by any reasonably competent mechanic (I do all my own work on my cars).

Apparently he has this thing about justifying spending thousands of more dollars on a car to avoid buying a few quarts of oil every year or so. Another example of his false economy. He is spending dollars to save pennies AND adding the inconvenience of lengthy 'refueling' times AND adding the inability to tow anything significant, if at all.

[Nordberg]

EVs have half the parts and require far less maintenance. The brakes last much much longer. They do not have mufflers. No tune-ups. Maintenance costs are a third of ICEs. That adds up to many thousands over the life of a vehicle. They have much less that can go wrong.
For some reason, you think we should believe that you are a super mechanic. With your record of lies, it is very, very doubtful. Lifetime maintenance costs of an EV, by todays cost are 10grand cheaper the the loud polluting ICEs.

[Into the Night]

You are flipping socks mid-discussion.

When did you learn to juggle and flip socks, gfm?

[gfm7175]

ICE cars need to have their engine oil changed every few thousand miles, due to exposing that oil to the burning temperatures in the cylinders (producing ash and acids, making the oil opaque and black). Failure to do so will cause sludging in the engine, which mostly affects the top end components. The coolant on these cars is pretty good these days. It doesn't need changing for several years. The transmission oil doesn't need changing unless a problem develops in the transmission. The pumpkin oil doesn't need changing unless it's being used for heavy duty or getting submerged in water (such as when launching a boat...something a Tesla can't do!).

Tesla cars also use oil and coolant. They also require changing, but the oil can last for years and the coolant even longer. The oil on a Tesla is like a transmission oil. The coolant is not designed to be changed easily.
Most EV's use liquid coolant for their batteries.

Maintenance on any vehicle mostly consists of cleaning it, rotating and changing out worn tires, body maintenance and repair, and of course refueling (or recharging) it.

What he fails to mention about maintenance beyond this is that EV's require maintenance work to be done at specialized shops or the dealer. EXPENSIVE!
Maintenance on an ICE car can be done by any reasonably competent mechanic (I do all my own work on my cars).

Apparently he has this thing about justifying spending thousands of more dollars on a car to avoid buying a few quarts of oil every year or so. Another example of his false economy. He is spending dollars to save pennies AND adding the inconvenience of lengthy 'refueling' times AND adding the inability to tow anything significant, if at all.

Well said, especially the conclusion.

[Into the Night]

EVs have half the parts

There are 7104 battery cells in the standard range Tesla. There is also the mounting rails, the coolant system, the motors and the oil they need, plus associated transmission (fixed ratio).

Part count doesn't mean anything.

and require far less maintenance.

Any competent mechanic can do the maintenance. It's pretty simple to change the oil. Spending thousands to avoid buying a few quarts of oil ever year or so is false economy.

The brakes last much much longer.

Not really, despite regenerative braking systems.

They do not have mufflers.

So?

No tune-ups.

I don't have tune-ups either. No modern car requires a tune-up. All ICE cars are FADAC now. No tune-up needed. Come out of the stone age, dude.

Maintenance costs are a third of ICEs.

Lie. Maintenance costs are the same as far as body and tire maintenance is concerned. Anything further requires specially equipped shops or the dealer to fix. EXPENSIVE! No, you can't justify the more expensive car this way!

That adds up to many thousands over the life of a vehicle. They have much less that can go wrong.

It doesn't cost a thousand dollars to change the oil. It costs a few quarts of oil, maybe an oil filter, and the cost of a bucket. No, you cannot justify a car that costs thousands more than the equivalently sized ICE vehicle that way!

For some reason, you think we should believe that you are a super mechanic.

Never said I was. I am a competent mechanic though. I have the tools and the know how to fix ICE cars and aircraft. I have no problem even with doing an engine overhaul. Sure a lot less expensive than changing out the batteries!

With your record of lies, it is very, very doubtful.

The lies are yours, dude. You can't project YOUR problems upon me or anybody else.

[gfm7175]

When did you learn to juggle and flip socks, gfm?

I started many years ago... It's taken a lot of practice, but now I'm a professional at juggling and flipping socks.

[Into the Night]

I started many years ago... It's taken a lot of practice, but now I'm a professional at juggling and flipping socks.