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Thread: Reality check on electric cars

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    Forty years ago there were no cell phone towers.blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
    "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."


    A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
    Author: Booker T. Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Unless you just can't stand the idea of "ni**ers" teaching white kids.


    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Address the topic, not other posters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Well, this is all wrong... I am a master electrician and I do this stuff all the time.
    I know you are. Concerning his claim of costs, and the 'overloading' of most service entrances, I agree with you. His figures for the length of time to charge the car is correct, however.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    If the circuit pulls 40 amps 8 is allowed for any length of run until, if calculated, the voltage due to resistance in the wire has caused about a 10% drop. Usually, you do it at around 5%. That only occurs with runs of hundreds of feet like in big industrial buildings. TWH 75 degree wire is rated for 50 amps (table 310.16). But, that's only if the unit is rated at 40 amps. If the nameplate says different, then you wire to that value.
    As I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    A charging service in an enclosed garage must be more than 24" off the floor of the garage or it will have to be in a class 1 division 1 hazardous location enclosure (NEMA 4X or equivalent). That is grotesquely expensive. This requirement is to avoid potential gasoline vapors in the garage collecting near the floor that could be ignited by a spark from the electrical system.
    Yes. I am aware of that bit in the code as well. Depending on the appliance there, you must also provide iron or concrete posts to protect the appliance if it's permanently installed.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    GFI is not required except on receptacles in a garage.
    I was unsure about that. Thank you. Some jurisdictions have this additional requirement beyond the NEC.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    All services require a service disconnect and have since at least the 30's.
    The 'service disconnect' is pulling the meter on many houses built in the 70's. The other is pulling the fuse on the transformer. Your particular jurisdiction may be required it that early, but not the NEC at the time. It's in there now, of course. Quote sensible!
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Even really old Edison fused ones have a service disconnect, usually a fused throw switch or pull block with fuses. Anything from about the late 40's on uses breakers and there is always a main disconnect.
    Nope. Not always!
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    When installing anything new in an existing service the requirement is that the new circuit can be fit into the existing panel, or a sub panel has to be installed.
    Yup.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    The new circuit, something large like a Tesla charging station, should have a load calc done on it to see if the service can handle it. That may or may not be done depending on who's installing it. If the station is nameplate rated for 75 amps, that's the wire sizing and breaker size you install for. Doesn't matter if it pulls just 40 amps when running normally, you size to the load data provided on the unit or in the manufacturer's provided data.
    Tesla charging stations can be switch for different charging rates. The installing electrician can set this switch to any of several choices. The user can't.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    You also have to meet the requirements in section 625 of the NEC for these.
    True.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    For welders, they're a bit weird. They have a full load amp rating and a duty cycle. Table 630.11 shows that for the first unit--like in a home-- you size the system to .71 of the full load rating for a typical 50% duty cycle welder. The assumption here is that the welder is operated intermittently so the electric supply won't heat as much as it would if the full load were continuously applied. The overload (eg., breaker rating) must be full load or greater not exceeding twice the load rating. So for a 100 amp welder the wiring can be rated for 71 amps and a 100 amp breaker used, but a larger breaker say a 125 could be used.
    That's about right. They also draw differently depending on whether it's a 120v or 240v welder.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    For a single welder, you can go with the Ieff off the nameplate if one is provided.
    That nameplate is required on all welders.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    This is required for all types of welding units. If multiple welders are present on a circuit it gets a little more complicated.
    That it does! Fortunately, that sort of thing tends to occur in businesses where a larger service entrance has been installed.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    A new service runs a couple thousand dollars minimum, and requires permits.
    That's about right. It's usually more, depending on the extent of the modifications required or desired by the end user.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    If over 200 amps, most jurisdictions will require an engineer's stamp on the drawings for it. That'll run you easily another thousand.
    Indeed it does!
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Underground upgrades are more expensive because of the trenching and new SE cable having to be installed.
    The trenching itself has new requirements too. There are expanded clearances required between electrical lines and gas, sewer, communications, and water lines, and the warning tape is now required. Depth requirements haven't changed though.
    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Overhead drops end at the weather head on the roof so there is less expense there.
    Very true. It can add up, if some other building or tree changes the routing path due to clearance requirements to get to the weather head.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    REALITY CHECK: At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious "If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, you have to face certain realities."

    "For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded. This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load."

    So, as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This later "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this deadend road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.

    Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine." Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

    It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip, your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

    According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.

    I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.

    The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So, the Government wants us to pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run and takes three times longer to drive across the country.


    WAKE UP NORTH AMERICA!!!!!!!
    Yeah globalists are pieces of shit, old news ...
    We are in an endless duration of constant change where the only thing that doesn't change is that change occurs because energy, matter and time are always present

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Go invest in that industry then. Someone has to be the fool that will invest in a company that will get sued out of existence.
    they call that the dumb money.

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    seems like into the night and ta gardner are good people to know in the end times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Dutch View Post
    Agreed. Shooting angry Trumpers should be a national pastime.
    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Only conclusion. Going to a Christian school causes you to be a mass murderer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionfish View Post
    what happens when a moron like you is too meth delusional to use a search engine? https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2...h=420d83253e48 you are too fucking stupid to think of triple A
    Why Biden? Because Fuck You that's why. Barack Obama has a Grammy, an Emmy, a Nobel Prize, 2 terms as President and a Twitter account.

    Donald Trump has 2 impeachments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    REALITY CHECK: At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious "If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, you have to face certain realities."

    "For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded. This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load."

    So, as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This later "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this deadend road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.

    Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine." Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.

    It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip, your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

    According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.

    I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.

    The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So, the Government wants us to pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run and takes three times longer to drive across the country.


    WAKE UP NORTH AMERICA!!!!!!!
    They do not make Volts anymore and they were in the small 30s. The article I read talked about the cost of the chargers. They come with the car. He used it repeatedly too. Chargers are a one-time thing. You cannot put that cost into the yearly costs of electric.
    The hidden cost of ICEs is pollution and the illnesses that they spread. Asthma, lung disease and many more are exacerbated by car and oil pollution Add this cost in. .https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/top...tion/index.cfm
    Last edited by Nordberg; 10-22-2021 at 01:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by katzgar View Post
    what happens when a moron like you is too meth delusional to use a search engine? https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2...h=420d83253e48 you are too fucking stupid to think of triple A
    So...you expect AAA to come with a bucket of electricity??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    They do not make Volts anymore and they were in the small 30s. The article I read talked about the cost of the chargers. They come with the car. He used it repeatedly too. Chargers are a one-time thing. You cannot put that cost into the yearly costs of electric.
    The hidden cost of ICEs is pollution and the illnesses that they spread. Asthma, lung disease and many more are exacerbated by car and oil pollution Add this cost in. .https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/top...tion/index.cfm
    How is 'car' a pollutant?? How is oil a pollutant? Asthma exacerbates asthma. What lung disease are you referring to (there are many diseases that affect the lung).

    How do you define a cost to something you can't even define???

    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    So...you expect AAA to come with a bucket of electricity??
    Of course not! You get out your camping gear and solar panels and recharge the car over several days by the side of the road you silly fool!

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Of course not! You get out your camping gear and solar panels and recharge the car over several days by the side of the road you silly fool!
    ...and if you forgot your solar panel and camping gear? Is AAA going to bring that to you? Oh...and all the food and drink you need as well?
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    ...and if you forgot your solar panel and camping gear? Is AAA going to bring that to you? Oh...and all the food and drink you need as well?
    No, not AAA, Grub hub and Amazon... Just use your stupid phone to call and have it all delivered ASAP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    No, not AAA, Grub hub and Amazon... Just use your stupid phone to call and have it all delivered ASAP!
    Wait...hasn't that Grub Hub driver been driving all day in HIS electric car? He's probably busy charging it!
    "The atmosphere is among the factors that determines the Earth's atmosphere." --ZenMode
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Wait...hasn't that Grub Hub driver been driving all day in HIS electric car? He's probably busy charging it!
    Nah... He's got a medical disability and spends most of his day smoking medical marijuana. The Grub Hub job is just so he can claim he's employed while Grub Hub can claim the hire the differently abled. This would be like his second delivery. Besides, if his car runs out of charge next to yours, you can share your tent with him because that's only fair in a world where there are infinite genders!

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