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Thread: Do Standardized Tests (SAT, ACT) = Institutional Racism?

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    There is a measure of disagreement on the left with this issue, and it's a fairly serious one.

    Some feel that proactive measures are required due to present problems being the result of past injustices.

    I understand that view, but don't believe that it's practically doable.

    I favor total colorblindness starting now and things will eventually work out.
    The thing to understand is that without colorblindness in the law and in practices, PRESENT injustices will continue to take place.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    There are people who make the argument that athletics should be separate from the Universities and made the equivalent of club sports (you can play them at school but admission benefits and scholarship money are not available for them).

    There are people that argue the same financial structures should exist but the kids are basically 'professionals' operating under the school banner (and therefore grade and tests scores are irrelevant.)

    When I go to an USC game do I think about the kids SAT scores? No I do not to answer your question. (It's also not really a published number)

    The core question is do eliminating tests create equity or is this a solution that does not address the problem and therefore doesn't produce positive results.

    CaWack: "The core question is do eliminating tests create equity or is this a solution that does not address the problem and therefore doesn't produce positive results."
    Jack: 'Eliminating Tests' may create MORE 'equity' for the disadvantaged and the less bright.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Only if they are going to be college students although the athletic department counsels them into courses they can pass or even has special courses for athletes to keep them eligible.
    So. It's already Bogus? Sort of like the daughter of Lori Loughlin that just wanted to go to College 'for the Parties'. These guys are just going to College 'for the Athletics'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    So. It's already Bogus? Sort of like the daughter of Lori Loughlin that just wanted to go to College 'for the Parties'. These guys are just going to College 'for the Athletics'.
    It is trending in that direction; especially with the new NCAA rules allowing players to make money from their endorsements. I even read about a high school student who is highly recruited and already being pursued for his product endorsements. He can't do that while still in high school so is leaving school early to enter college.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    It is trending in that direction; especially with the new NCAA rules allowing players to make money from their endorsements. I even read about a high school student who is highly recruited and already being pursued for his product endorsements. He can't do that while still in high school so is leaving school early to enter college.
    Well, if you are looking for 'equity', there you go.
    It's like that Microsoft founder guy. He never finished College. Someone once asked Bill Gates about that. Stating "If you had finished College look where you could have gone".

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    of course not.
    if minorities chose to not use English to communicate they can expect to have they're ceiling lowered accordingly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    There is a measure of disagreement on the left with this issue, and it's a fairly serious one.

    Some feel that proactive measures are required due to present problems being the result of past injustices.

    I understand that view, but don't believe that it's practically doable.

    I favor total colorblindness starting now and things will eventually work out.
    The thing to understand is that without colorblindness in the law and in practices, PRESENT injustices will continue to take place.
    The Ibram Kendi “How To Be An Anti-Racist” argument is that any discrepancies between races is due to racism. Thus color blind policies are not a solution. And that’s consistent with saying the SAT and ACT are racist (I think that blames the tests for other factors but…)

    Someone posted last week that Canadians are better educated than Americans. Does eliminating exams like this help to increase our nations educational achievement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    The Ibram Kendi “How To Be An Anti-Racist” argument is that any discrepancies between races is due to racism. Thus color blind policies are not a solution. And that’s consistent with saying the SAT and ACT are racist (I think that blames the tests for other factors but…)

    Someone posted last week that Canadians are better educated than Americans. Does eliminating exams like this help to increase our nations educational achievement?
    I would opine no. There are arguments against color blind policies to be sure, but I still regard them to be the right way to go.
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a a scoundrel. Samuel Johnson, 1775
    Religion....is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx, 1848

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Kind of curious if the response here falls along partisan political lines or if there is a divergence of opinion.



    NCAA task force recommends removing minimum standardized test scores in effort to advance racial equity


    An NCAA task force recommended on Friday that incoming freshmen in Division I and II sports should no longer be required to meet minimum scores on standardized tests for initial eligibility.
    I thought they already did that. I remember there was a basketball point shaving scandal at Tulane their star player was involved in. That player was illiterate.
    "Where the people fear the govt. you have tyranny. Where the govt. fears the people you have liberty."

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    I saw an IQ test that was predicated on black experiences and black culture. The white people failed it and blacks did very well. The tests are not on a fair level. You cannot make a fair test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    I saw an IQ test that was predicated on black experiences and black culture. The white people failed it and blacks did very well. The tests are not on a fair level. You cannot make a fair test.
    Why do Asians do so well on it?

    What should Universities use in its place?

    Edit: SAT/ACT tests aren’t IQ tests.
    Last edited by cawacko; 10-17-2021 at 11:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    I saw an IQ test that was predicated on black experiences and black culture. The white people failed it and blacks did very well. The tests are not on a fair level. You cannot make a fair test.
    That tells me IQ tests are useless when they have to be customized to race.
    "Where the people fear the govt. you have tyranny. Where the govt. fears the people you have liberty."

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Why do Asians do so well on it?
    They must be geared specifically for Asians. And they’re purposely made so blacks do poorly.
    "Where the people fear the govt. you have tyranny. Where the govt. fears the people you have liberty."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    I saw an IQ test that was predicated on black experiences and black culture. The white people failed it and blacks did very well. The tests are not on a fair level. You cannot make a fair test.
    So what do you have for us Nordberg? There are people who argue grades are racist due both to teacher biases and that focusing on grades takes away from true academic achievement and growth. The chances or removing grades nationally probably aren't high, so they'll still be with us. But the reality is with grade inflation and each school being somewhat different it's not 100% apples to apples to compare students strictly by grades. So Universities are going to continue to look at some other metrics. What should those metrics be that aren't institutionally racist?

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