7 mind-blowing facts that show why employment in the US is the worst in the developed

[volsrock]

China is smiling

[volsrock]

They served for 10 months while there was no vaccine. There was no disaster. Suddenly they are in violation and kicked out? This is not about a virus. Never was.

[NiftyNiblick]

I think that our Tennessee Titan has posted on the wrong thread. This isn't the one about the sailors.

[archives]

And the best way to ensure workers have a choice is Right-to-work. If they want a union, fine. If not, fine. Unions should not be able to monopolize labor through closed-shop laws. If the union is worth joining, workers will join. If not, then they won't. Giving unions the power to force workers into them is absolutely wrong.

This I never understood, if a person takes a job knowing that a requirement of the job is that they have to join a union how is this “absolutely wrong?” The Union strength comes from solidarity, otherwise management can negotiate with individuals rather than the group. Without the closed shop why would anyone join, no dues, yet you get to enjoy all the benefits

[NiftyNiblick]

I would have no problem with the immediate eradication of every single Right to Work advocate with absolutely no exceptions.
They are my MOST hated demographic with the possible exception of child molesters.

The closest I have ever come to incarceration was my personal physical abuse of a vocal right to work advocate,
because if the idiot had the balls to press charges, judges frown on battery by former professional prize fighters.

I was struck first, but I could have tried to restrain my assailant rather than hitting back. I fucking didn't and have no remorse.

[Cinnabar]

This is all true and all stuff of which I was very aware as a union rep twenty years ago.

It is very easy to get the horrifically stupid conservative American worker to vote IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO HIS/HER BEST INTERESTS.

Just pander to their religious superstitions like fetus worship and prayer in schools.
Tell them that Democrats want to take away their firearms.
Tell them that they're not stupid to think that they're vastly superior to niggers and spicks and slopes.

If the typical working class conservative has no use as landfill, he/she has absolutely no use at all.

We're a shamefully socially regressive country because a handful of billionaire corporate oligarchs who run the Republican Party
have the ignorant rank and file dancing from strings.

Shamefully, it's not just the Republicans. The military industrial complex, the oil industry, the health insurance complex and Wall Street own many of the Dems who are supposed to represent the people but clearly do not!

[NiftyNiblick]

Shamefully, it's not just the Republicans. The military industrial complex, the oil industry, the health insurance complex and Wall Street own many of the Dems who are supposed to represent the people but clearly do not!

That's largely true, but there's no question that how Democrats and Republicans vote on the floor of congress is not the same.

[Cinnabar]

That's largely true, but there's no question that how Democrats and Republicans vote on the floor of congress is not the same.

The Dems are equally owned by corporate masters. The Senator from MBNA was Biden's nickname

Who Owns Congress? A Campaign Cash Seating Chart
What if members of Congress were seated not by party but according to their major business sponsors? We gave it a try.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics...rate-sponsors/

[T. A. Gardner]

Hello T. A. Gardner,
So you believe government should intervene into the market to prevent that?

Not really. The government should stay out it as much as possible. But there are many states, particularly Democrat run blue ones, that are closed shop states that force union membership. The Democrats right now are trying to push through legislation to make closed shop a national thing, along with other rules that would make it far harder for employers and workers alike to refuse a union. That is definitely wrong.

[T. A. Gardner]

This I never understood, if a person takes a job knowing that a requirement of the job is that they have to join a union how is this “absolutely wrong?” The Union strength comes from solidarity, otherwise management can negotiate with individuals rather than the group. Without the closed shop why would anyone join, no dues, yet you get to enjoy all the benefits

That's not the point. In right-to-work states you can join or not join as you choose. The union in such states--if competently run--would seek to give workers reasons to join. But virtually all unions instead turn to government to make not joining illegal membership forced.

Union strength comes from competence and doing things for their members that the members see as valuable to them. When there is value in joining, people will join. When there is no value or perceived poor value in joining, people won't.

For example, would you want to join a union that is going to take say 5% of your pay, tells you their sole purpose is to keep you in the job you have now, but will make no effort to assist you in being promoted or getting a better position within the company, and that they want to use some of your dues to support politicians you hate? Throw in that they see the management as the enemy. Would you join such a union?

On the other hand, would you join a union that tells you for 5% of your pay you get an extra retirement account like an IRA, will get job training to get you promoted to better paying positions within the company, offers say an alternative or gap filling healthcare plan at low cost, and isn't going to use your dues to grease politicians? This union also says they want to work with management to make things better. Would you join such a union?

[American Man]

Bullshit. Workers have legal rights whether they're in a union or not. Many unions are about as useful as tits on a rattlesnake when it comes to protecting workers. Union or not, employers generally cannot fire you for "literally no reason" and you still have legal recourse to that.

On the other hand, unions often restrict member's ability to do various jobs, take side work, and do anything beyond the job the union contracted for them. Dues are often onerous and used for supporting political movements and politicians the member objects to. This was partially blocked by the Beck v. CCA case in the 80's.

So, unions can be as bad or worse as employers and certainly are no panacea for workers.

You're delusional. American workers have no rights. I've worked in warehouses where guys were fired for talking about their pay increases. One guy was fired when it was discovered he'd reported violations to OSHA.

If you work in an at-will state, you have no rights. Period.

[American Man]

That's not the point. In right-to-work states you can join or not join as you choose. The union in such states--if competently run--would seek to give workers reasons to join. But virtually all unions instead turn to government to make not joining illegal membership forced.

Union strength comes from competence and doing things for their members that the members see as valuable to them. When there is value in joining, people will join. When there is no value or perceived poor value in joining, people won't.

For example, would you want to join a union that is going to take say 5% of your pay, tells you their sole purpose is to keep you in the job you have now, but will make no effort to assist you in being promoted or getting a better position within the company, and that they want to use some of your dues to support politicians you hate? Would you join such a union?

A union can't function effectively if the majority of the employees aren't in it.

[American Man]

Anything deviating from pure free market capitalism is "the stupidest argument he's ever read"

Can't argue with an ideologue moron, don't bother.

As much as I hate Trump, he was correct when he described America as a "developing nation." I have international friends through Reddit who are absolutely mind-fucked about how low the quality of life is in America.

[T. A. Gardner]

A union can't function effectively if the majority of the employees aren't in it.

Then the union should change it's functions and positions such that workers want to join...

[American Man]

Then the union should change it's functions and positions such that workers want to join...

No. You're not grasping the basic concept of strength in numbers.

The only way employees have power is when the majority of them stand up to oppression. If all of the investors at Amazon or Walmart took a week vacation, would anyone notice? Those companies would still be chugging along. But imagine if every worker took off for the day.

That's the power of the the union. If one guy stands up to oppression, he gets canned. If everyone stands up, the machine grinds to a halt and the pricks are forced to listen. This is why it's critical for a union to make sure a company can't undermine it by hiring outside workers.