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Thread: 7 mind-blowing facts that show why employment in the US is the worst in the developed

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    This is all true and all stuff of which I was very aware as a union rep twenty years ago.

    It is very easy to get the horrifically stupid conservative American worker to vote IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO HIS/HER BEST INTERESTS.

    Just pander to their religious superstitions like fetus worship and prayer in schools.
    Tell them that Democrats want to take away their firearms.
    Tell them that they're not stupid to think that they're vastly superior to niggers and spicks and slopes.

    If the typical working class conservative has no use as landfill, he/she has absolutely no use at all.

    We're a shamefully socially regressive country because a handful of billionaire corporate oligarchs who run the Republican Party
    have the ignorant rank and file dancing from strings.

    Pretentious Preppy Progressives

    When will people realize that Liberals are agents of the Right Wing they were born in? In order to drive us into voting for the class they received all their power from, they purposely propose an agenda that is disgusting to the White blue-collar workers.

    You truly are an anti-working-class snob, or you'd reject all Democrat social issues. If you were what you pretend to be, you must obey what we want, not what your ideological isolation tells you we shouldn't want.
    Last edited by The Sage of Main Street; 10-19-2021 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Grammar Does Matter; It Proves That College Grads Are Low-IQs
    On the outside, trickling down on the Insiders

    We won't live free until the Democrats, and their voters, live in fear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LV426 View Post
    Guaranteed minimum wage, guaranteed benefits, time off/leave, safe workplace, etc.

    Why do you think so many employers are having a hard time finding workers now?
    The AFL was fighting for a "living wage" from 1886 to 1938--and beyond. Unions played a very minor role in getting a minimum wage in place. Rather it was put in place as part of FDR's larger New Deal package.
    Guaranteed benefits came about mostly as a result of wage and price control laws passed during WW 2 that resulted in employers using 'wages-in-kind' to entice workers to hire with them as there was a general labor shortage.
    Workplace safety started with the MSHA and OSHA brought in in the late 70's by Richard Nixon. Unions had nothing to do with that, and even opposed both to some extent. Before that there was a hodgepodge of state safety laws that were generally poorly enforced.

    As early as 1884-85 some states instituted the first Worker's Compensation programs which unions generally opposed because these were based on insurance practice were the worker had to put in a small sum each payday as part of it.

    Unions have been no fount of panacea for workers and their issues other than pay for the most part historically.

    As for why many employers are having a hard time finding workers... A combination of lack of skills, persons finding that unemployment and welfare pay better, and inertia among other things. Unions have zero to do with that problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpet View Post
    Why aren't you working instead of posting nonsense on this forum?????????????????
    Because I get two pensions and have plenty of money to sit on my ass and do nothing but annoy you on this forum if I so choose. I do electrical service work to keep busy and the cash is all gravy, but I need the exercise.

    What's your excuse for being a deadbeat? At least I'm not feeding at the welfare trough like you...

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    No, government should not intervene in the market to allow that to happen which it does under current law.
    RTW is government intervention. Those laws should be repealed.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    That's not the point. In right-to-work states you can join or not join as you choose. The union in such states--if competently run--would seek to give workers reasons to join. But virtually all unions instead turn to government to make not joining illegal membership forced.

    Union strength comes from competence and doing things for their members that the members see as valuable to them. When there is value in joining, people will join. When there is no value or perceived poor value in joining, people won't.

    For example, would you want to join a union that is going to take say 5% of your pay, tells you their sole purpose is to keep you in the job you have now, but will make no effort to assist you in being promoted or getting a better position within the company, and that they want to use some of your dues to support politicians you hate? Throw in that they see the management as the enemy. Would you join such a union?

    On the other hand, would you join a union that tells you for 5% of your pay you get an extra retirement account like an IRA, will get job training to get you promoted to better paying positions within the company, offers say an alternative or gap filling healthcare plan at low cost, and isn't going to use your dues to grease politicians? This union also says they want to work with management to make things better. Would you join such a union?
    What union tells workers: "We intend to use your dues to support politicians you hate?"

    In those actual words...

    Democrats are not going to make any laws which force workers to join a union. They are simply going to ensure that Republicans are not able to make laws which prevent a union from negotiating any agreement they wish with management.

    It is Republicans with their so-called rtw laws that seek to control what kind of agreement can be made between a free union and an employer. They are not rtw laws. They are screw-the-union laws.

    RTW = STU

    A union is no good if non-union people can work there and get all the benefits the union people fought for and gave up part of their pay to get. That screws the union.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Then the union should change it's functions and positions such that workers want to join...
    Why should workers join when they get the benefits without joining?
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Flash,

    RTW is government intervention. Those laws should be repealed.
    It is also government intervention when a labor union can legally require a person to join their union to be free to work and/or legally take money from their paycheck. It is government protection for a private organization.

    Since when do you oppose government intervention?

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    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    If the union is corrupt, and many are, doesn't care about the workers but rather about politics and internal enrichment--again many do this, then the union is really just screwing the workers and forcing them to join doesn't really help them.
    The idea that a company can just hire outside workers isn't true for the majority of unions anymore. If a trade union like the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) goes on strike you can't easily hire new skilled electricians. Sure, you might get a few, but you can't mass replace them.

    The only unions that rely primarily on "strength in numbers" are labor unions filled with unskilled and semi-skilled workers who are replaceable cogs in a machine because they don't have any particular skills, education, or training that you can't get from your local zoo's monkey house.
    Non-union workers in a union shop are scabs every day.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinnabar View Post
    Which party is the party representing the people again? Because I do tend to forget. Oh that's right, the lesser of two evils does now and then but what about on this issue?

    Wake up folks! It's rude to sleep when you are getting screwed.
    pffftt! I don't need the government to negotiate my contract nor a union. I get all the vacation time, personal time, and sick time I need. Fuck the Government

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    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Then maybe the union should seek to incentivize workers to join by offering things the workers want rather than forcing membership against their will by government fiat.
    There is no government fiat. The only thing that would force union membership would be an agreement between the union and the shop.

    Name the law.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello American Man,

    Quote Originally Posted by American Man View Post
    You can thank unions for all the benefits you undoubtedly receive at your job, like paid time off, overtime pay, maternity leave, retirement, etc.
    We can thank unions for such basic things as a 40 hour week and overtime pay.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    I can see how millennials would be attracted to a forum titled "antiwork"......
    There you go picking on an entire generation again!
    That's just stupid and ignorant!

    I know people from every generation, and even though there may be some characteristics that are unique to one generation vs. another, I've never seen a generation yet that feels more entitled than any other, or lazy as you may be trying to suggest.

    Do you have children or grandchildren of your own prophet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello T. A. Gardner,



    What union tells workers: "We intend to use your dues to support politicians you hate?"

    In those actual words...

    Democrats are not going to make any laws which force workers to join a union. They are simply going to ensure that Republicans are not able to make laws which prevent a union from negotiating any agreement they wish with management.

    It is Republicans with their so-called rtw laws that seek to control what kind of agreement can be made between a free union and an employer. They are not rtw laws. They are screw-the-union laws.

    RTW = STU

    A union is no good if non-union people can work there and get all the benefits the union people fought for and gave up part of their pay to get. That screws the union.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Why should workers join when they get the benefits without joining?
    Exactly. But unions are losing members and don't want that so they want the Democrats and government to force workers into their unions.

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    It is also government intervention when a labor union can legally require a person to join their union to be free to work and/or legally take money from their paycheck. It is government protection for a private organization.

    Since when do you oppose government intervention?
    If it is the union forcing it to happen then it is not the government forcing it to happen.

    The employer complies not because of government intervention but because of the threat of strike.

    Employer makes deal not to hire outside of union in order to get striking workers back on the job.

    If employer renegs on that word, workers go back on strike.

    No government involved.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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