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Thread: 7 mind-blowing facts that show why employment in the US is the worst in the developed

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    Quote Originally Posted by American Man View Post
    No. You're not grasping the basic concept of strength in numbers.

    The only way employees have power is when the majority of them stand up to oppression. If all of the investors at Amazon or Walmart took a week vacation, would anyone notice? Those companies would still be chugging along. But imagine if every worker took off for the day.

    That's the power of the the union. If one guy stands up to oppression, he gets canned. If everyone stands up, the machine grinds to a halt and the pricks are forced to listen. This is why it's critical for a union to make sure a company can't undermine it by hiring outside workers.
    If the union is corrupt, and many are, doesn't care about the workers but rather about politics and internal enrichment--again many do this, then the union is really just screwing the workers and forcing them to join doesn't really help them.
    The idea that a company can just hire outside workers isn't true for the majority of unions anymore. If a trade union like the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) goes on strike you can't easily hire new skilled electricians. Sure, you might get a few, but you can't mass replace them.

    The only unions that rely primarily on "strength in numbers" are labor unions filled with unskilled and semi-skilled workers who are replaceable cogs in a machine because they don't have any particular skills, education, or training that you can't get from your local zoo's monkey house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by American Man View Post
    A union can't function effectively if the majority of the employees aren't in it.
    Then maybe the union should seek to incentivize workers to join by offering things the workers want rather than forcing membership against their will by government fiat.

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    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Not really. The government should stay out it as much as possible. But there are many states, particularly Democrat run blue ones, that are closed shop states that force union membership. The Democrats right now are trying to push through legislation to make closed shop a national thing, along with other rules that would make it far harder for employers and workers alike to refuse a union. That is definitely wrong.
    It is between the union and the employer whatever bargain they arrive at.

    It requires government intervention to dictate terms of such a bargain to the liking of Republicans in so-called 'RTW' states.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
    This is all true and all stuff of which I was very aware as a union rep twenty years ago.

    It is very easy to get the horrifically stupid conservative American worker to vote IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO HIS/HER BEST INTERESTS.

    Just pander to their religious superstitions like fetus worship and prayer in schools.
    Tell them that Democrats want to take away their firearms.
    Tell them that they're not stupid to think that they're vastly superior to niggers and spicks and slopes.

    If the typical working class conservative has no use as landfill, he/she has absolutely no use at all.

    We're a shamefully socially regressive country because a handful of billionaire corporate oligarchs who run the Republican Party
    have the ignorant rank and file dancing from strings.
    'Work and pray, live on hay:
    There'll be pie in the sky when we die'.

    It is incredible that ordinary American workers should be so near slaves. Their brainwashers are much more effective than were Stalin's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iolo/Penderyn View Post
    'Work and pray, live on hay:
    There'll be pie in the sky when we die'.

    It is incredible that ordinary American workers should be so near slaves. Their brainwashers are much more effective than were Stalin's.
    As the late, great comedian/social commentator George Carlin once said, "They call it the American Dream for a reason....because you have to be asleep to believe it!"
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

    George Orwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Then maybe the union should seek to incentivize workers to join by offering things the workers want rather than forcing membership against their will by government fiat.
    No. A union enters into contract with an employer. An employer can't ignore this contract without legal repercussions. The union has to maintain the leverage it gains or else it's powerless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    If the union is corrupt, and many are, doesn't care about the workers but rather about politics and internal enrichment--again many do this, then the union is really just screwing the workers and forcing them to join doesn't really help them.
    The idea that a company can just hire outside workers isn't true for the majority of unions anymore. If a trade union like the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) goes on strike you can't easily hire new skilled electricians. Sure, you might get a few, but you can't mass replace them.

    The only unions that rely primarily on "strength in numbers" are labor unions filled with unskilled and semi-skilled workers who are replaceable cogs in a machine because they don't have any particular skills, education, or training that you can't get from your local zoo's monkey house.
    Spoken like a true man of privilege who has no idea what the working man actually endures.

    You know what a supervisor is? A slave with a whip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iolo/Penderyn View Post
    'Work and pray, live on hay:
    There'll be pie in the sky when we die'.

    It is incredible that ordinary American workers should be so near slaves. Their brainwashers are much more effective than were Stalin's.
    It really is amazing how little the American worker has compared to workers in better nations. Even Chinese factory workers have more protections than American workers, if you can believe it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by American Man View Post
    No. A union enters into contract with an employer. An employer can't ignore this contract without legal repercussions. The union has to maintain the leverage it gains or else it's powerless.
    That has nothing to do with a union trying to recruit new members. In right-to-work states workers can--and often do--refuse to join the union where there is one. Only in closed shop states (few today and almost entirely Democrat run) can a union force membership of workers.

    Now, if the union was a valuable and useful thing, workers would have an incentive to join wouldn't they? If on the other hand, the union was just fucking things up for workers they'd likely not want to join unless forced to.

    The problem unions have is they mostly suck at what they do. That's why workers refuse to join or allow their company to be unionized. They see the union as a bigger bunch of assholes than their employer so they don't want the union. That's in simplest terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by American Man View Post
    Spoken like a true man of privilege who has no idea what the working man actually endures.

    You know what a supervisor is? A slave with a whip.
    Dogmatically parroted like a true union hack...

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    That has nothing to do with a union trying to recruit new members. In right-to-work states workers can--and often do--refuse to join the union where there is one. Only in closed shop states (few today and almost entirely Democrat run) can a union force membership of workers.

    Now, if the union was a valuable and useful thing, workers would have an incentive to join wouldn't they? If on the other hand, the union was just fucking things up for workers they'd likely not want to join unless forced to.

    The problem unions have is they mostly suck at what they do. That's why workers refuse to join or allow their company to be unionized. They see the union as a bigger bunch of assholes than their employer so they don't want the union. That's in simplest terms.
    The only reason workers don't join unions when available is because they're retarded. We live in a country where Donald Trump won the presidency and people think the world is 6,000 years old.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Dogmatically parroted like a true union hack...
    You can thank unions for all the benefits you undoubtedly receive at your job, like paid time off, overtime pay, maternity leave, retirement, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by American Man View Post
    You can thank unions for all the benefits you undoubtedly receive at your job, like paid time off, overtime pay, maternity leave, retirement, etc.
    That is complete and utter bullshit. I suppose you are one of those that think unions gave everyone the 40 hour work week also. What union are you in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    That is complete and utter bullshit. I suppose you are one of those that think unions gave everyone the 40 hour work week also. What union are you in?
    Are you one of those boomers who complains that nobody wants to work shit jobs with shit pay and no benefits? People are finally waking up. Who wants to work in retail at $8/hr dealing with entitled pricks all day long? Who wants to work in a hot, dirty fast food place for minimum wage and no benefits? You guys call them "essential workers" and "heroes," but now you want to spit at them for refusing to lick your boots for peanuts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by American Man View Post
    Are you one of those boomers who complains that nobody wants to work shit jobs with shit pay and no benefits? People are finally waking up. Who wants to work in retail at $8/hr dealing with entitled pricks all day long? Who wants to work in a hot, dirty fast food place for minimum wage and no benefits? You guys call them "essential workers" and "heroes," but now you want to spit at them for refusing to lick your boots for peanuts.
    You're still stuck in the 50's, maybe the 30's...

    Fast food places aren't "dirty." They get regular inspections and there are lots of rules and regulations about cleanliness. Workers today even have to get a food handler's certificate to work there. They usually aren't "hot" either having air conditioning and OSHA rules about such things that have to be met.

    Hell, even McDonald's offers benefits today...

    Flexible work schedules
    401K package
    Tuition assistance
    Life insurance
    Health insurance
    A bonus plan
    Family and medical leave

    While these might not be as generous as some corporation with a higher level of employee skills, education, and such, they're still offering that stuff, and all without a union.

    Most large corporations with a skilled workforce offer great benefits, union or not.

    Unions have lost their clout because they don't do anything for workers anymore. If they did, people would be willing to join.

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