Philosophy of Thomas Jefferson

[Cypress]

Jefferson had a taste for black ladies!

He did Sally Hemmings wrong.

[Doc Dutch]

He did Sally Hemmings wrong.

Only by 21st Century standards. By 18th Century standards, he's a refined gentleman and a scholar.

[Doc Dutch]

Corporate Capitalism rules America.

....and We, the People keep voting for that to happen.

[Melchizedek = Michael]

Only by 21st Century standards. By 18th Century standards, he's a refined gentleman and a scholar.

Bullshit! Race mixing was sin number one in 18th century

[Melchizedek = Michael]

....and We, the People keep voting for that to happen.

Doesn't matter, Corporate Capitalism is bipartisan in buying Congressman and Senators

[Cypress]

Only by 21st Century standards. By 18th Century standards, he's a refined gentleman and a scholar.

We know from his own writings that he considered slavery morally wrong, even though he couldn't bring himself to free his own slaves during his lifetime.

But in my opinion, the ideas of Jefferson can be considered separately from his sins as an individual.

The Declaration of Independence is rhetorically and philosophically one of the most powerful documents ever written, and that is why it has been used as the model around the world by European colonies declaring their independence from their colonial masters.

[archives]

In Jefferson's seminal correspondence with John Adams, the two debated philosophical questions.

Jefferson espoused a type of strict, reductionist materialism.

Adams countered with a George Berkley-inspired idealism: that the material world is an illusion and reality is constructed by ideas in our minds.


Since I grew up in the age of Bedtime for Bonzo, Dan Quayle, George Dumbya Bush, Sarah Palin, and Donald Trump, it is weird to think about former presidents corresponding and musing with peers about philosophy and history.

The written world was the Internet of the day, they all were prolific authors, which today is a double edge sword, as we’ve seen, it is too easy for someone with an agenda today to cherry pick from any of them to get some line or phrase they think represents that Founder’s view on something

Not saying he wasn’t vital, but I think Jefferson today gets too much credit, he was a better President than Founding Father, least as President he pulled away from his strict constructionist or dogmatic opinions. Franklin, in terms of the Revolution and Constitution, and Hamilton, in getting the country off the ground, we’re more important

[Doc Dutch]

We know from his own writings that he considered slavery morally wrong, even though he couldn't bring himself to free his own slaves during his lifetime.

But in my opinion, the ideas of Jefferson can be considered separately from his sins as an individual.

The Declaration of Independence is rhetorically and philosophically one of the most powerful documents ever written, and that is why it has been used as the model around the world by European colonies declaring their independence from their colonial masters.

Agreed on Jefferson's writings. He was one of the leading forward thinkers of his time and, IMO, well ahead of his time. The common believe among slave owners was that fucking slaves was a side benny and morally correct.

Agreed the sins of the man and the ideas of the man can be separated.

Agreed on the Declaration of Independence. Notice those who give lip-service to people being endowed with "certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" then in the same breath seek to restrict the rights of others under force of law.

[Doc Dutch]

The written world was the Internet of the day, they all were prolific authors, which today is a double edge sword, as we’ve seen, it is too easy for someone with an agenda today to cherry pick from any of them to get some line or phrase they think represents that Founder’s view on something

Not saying he wasn’t vital, but I think Jefferson today gets too much credit, he was a better President than Founding Father, least as President he pulled away from his strict constructionist or dogmatic opinions. Franklin, in terms of the Revolution and Constitution, and Hamilton, in getting the country off the ground, we’re more important

To their credit, the Founders were deep into unknown territory. The common European prediction was that the US would fail and come crawling back to the English Monarchy because they sincerely believed that most people were too fucking stupid to take care of themselves. Notice that the Russians, once free of Soviet totalitarianism, ended up crawling back to being taken care of by a dictator.

In the 21st Century, both the Democratic and Republican parties have replaced the Euro Monarchists.

[Cypress]

The written world was the Internet of the day, they all were prolific authors, which today is a double edge sword, as we’ve seen, it is too easy for someone with an agenda today to cherry pick from any of them to get some line or phrase they think represents that Founder’s view on something

Not saying he wasn’t vital, but I think Jefferson today gets too much credit, he was a better President than Founding Father, least as President he pulled away from his strict constructionist or dogmatic opinions. Franklin, in terms of the Revolution and Constitution, and Hamilton, in getting the country off the ground, we’re more important

He was our Diplomat in France during the drafting of the Constitution, and so naturally he can't get any credit for the founding of the Republic under the constitutional framework.

I think the Declaration of Independence is one of history's truly significant rhetorical and philosophical documents, and I believe that is where Jefferson's legacy really lies.

The document was a brilliant fusion of natural law, Greek logic and Euclidean proof, and Enlightenment ideals about universal truths.

[archives]

To their credit, the Founders were deep into unknown territory. The common European prediction was that the US would fail and come crawling back to the English Monarchy because they sincerely believed that most people were too fucking stupid to take care of themselves. Notice that the Russians, once free of Soviet totalitarianism, ended up crawling back to being taken care of by a dictator.

In the 21st Century, both the Democratic and Republican parties have replaced the Euro Monarchists.

Not entirely, individuals as Voltaire and others who laid out the script had been popular for decades, and what they pulled off was gutsy, the biggest part is them actually writing it all down, spelling out the actual roles, rules, and obligations. Most viewed it as a gamble, actually represented a threat, but I wouldn’t say many felt they would return to the English, but rather evolve into some form of semi-absolutism

And politicians today, because of those recorded rules and regulations, can’t become monarchists, perhaps part of an oligarchy, but not totalitarianists, although, we do have one that is attempting such even today

[archives]

He was our Diplomat in France during the drafting of the Constitution, and so naturally he can't get any credit for the founding of the Republic under the constitutional framework.

I think the Declaration of Independence is one of history's truly significant rhetorical and philosophical documents, and I believe that is where Jefferson's legacy really lies.

The document was a brilliant fusion of natural law, Greek logic and Euclidean proof, and Enlightenment ideals about universal truths.

But essentially all it was was a Declaration, announcing an official split, which he borrowed from many to author, and you are correct, it is his legacy, but that alone I wouldn’t say put him up as high as he is considering what followed

[Doc Dutch]

Not entirely, individuals as Voltaire and others who laid out the script had been popular for decades, and what they pulled off was gutsy, the biggest part is them actually writing it all down, spelling out the actual roles, rules, and obligations. Most viewed it as a gamble, actually represented a threat, but I wouldn’t say many felt they would return to the English, but rather evolve into some form of semi-absolutism

And politicians today, because of those recorded rules and regulations, can’t become monarchists, perhaps part of an oligarchy, but not totalitarianists, although, we do have one that is attempting such even today

Not Monarchists anymore than Putin. Just authoritarian assholes who seek to restrict rights and impose their will on the majority.

[Cypress]

But essentially all it was was a Declaration, announcing an official split, which he borrowed from many to author, and you are correct, it is his legacy, but that alone I wouldn’t say put him up as high as he is considering what followed

What sets him apart IMO, is not just the Declaration of Independence and the Virginia Bill Rights, but the fact that he was the most eloquent spokesperson for the aspirational ideal of equality. If it had been left up to men like John Adams and Alexander Hamilton, we would have taken the path to oligarchy and aristocracy. Many of the founders were basically North American versions of aristocrats with a deep hostility to democracy.

Jefferson was one of the truly radical ones, by 18th century standards. He was so radical he was one of the few Anglo-American intellectuals who fully embraced the radical ideals of the French revolution

[archives]

What sets him apart IMO, is not just the Declaration of Independence and the Virginia Bill Rights, but the fact that he was the most eloquent spokesperson for the aspirational ideal of equality. If it had been left up to men like John Adams and Alexander Hamilton, we would have taken the path to oligarchy and aristocracy. Many of the founders were basically North American versions of aristocrats with a deep hostility to democracy.

Jefferson was one of the truly radical ones, by 18th century standards. He was so radical he was one of the few Anglo-American intellectuals who fully embraced the radical ideals of the French revolution

In his writings perhaps, but not practice, and I don't believe many of the Founding Fathers including Jefferson embraced the French Revolution when it entered its Radical phase

The Federalist Party wasn't an agent of oligarchy and aristocracy, admittedly, some were obstinate as Adams, just as inflexible as Jefferson, but I would argue that it was Hamilton, a pragmatist, who gave the country direction

And I am not dissing Jefferson, rather, questioning the weight he is often granted, as I noted, individuals as Franklin and Hamilton played a big role