Page 4 of 16 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 230

Thread: Stop teaching morons that Christianity has a monopoly on virtue

  1. #46 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    57,794
    Thanks
    35,484
    Thanked 50,296 Times in 27,101 Posts
    Groans
    22
    Groaned 2,975 Times in 2,692 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    I agree there is not end to religion in the near future.

    I disagree that religion is changing. New printings of religious scriptures contain the same text. Nothing has been revised.

    The only thing that changes about religion is how it is practiced.

    There were no televangelists 100 years ago, for instance.

    I don't see religion going away because people don't participate in religion to affirm their beliefs. They already believe. At least most of them do. I am convinced there are many who participate in religion, even religious leaders, who have their doubts about the basic existence of a creator being. But mostly these doubts are not discussed. To do so would violate the scriptures.

    Many people participate in religion mostly for the social aspect. By maintaining a church membership, they are part of a club, part of an organization, part of something bigger than themselves. It gives them an automatic set of friends, people who share something in common, a group to identify with. That's probably more important for most church members than reaffirming belief.

    You appear to be conflating' "religion" with "Christianity", and in particular the American Protestant fundamentalist strain of Christianity. Only in Protestantism is biblical literalism and biblical inerrancy held to be tenets of the faith.

    There are five billion religious people in this world, at least. And only a small minority of the are Protestants.

    What I am mostly disagreeing with you is the assertion that religion will disappear at some point in the coming decades, and that anyone professing to be Christian will be laughed at.

    I do not think there is any data to support that outcome.

    Pentecostals and Baptists scare me. But I not blind to the data. Christianity, and particularly Protestantism, is growing rapidly in Asia and Africa.

    Islam has been growing rapidly for decades and will continue to do do according to projections.

    Hinduism and Buddhism are holding their own.


    To me at least, the moral of the story is that I do not think religion is going to fade away, either in our lifetimes or the lifetimes of our grandkids.

    Humans are probably always going to be attracted to formal, systematic approaches to a metaphysical moral vision perceived to be based on some higher truth.

  2. #47 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    34,576
    Thanks
    5,715
    Thanked 15,145 Times in 10,539 Posts
    Groans
    100
    Groaned 2,987 Times in 2,752 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I have more threads than most people mocking religious reactionaries...


    But on the flipside, every aspect of human culture changes over time. Most of the science of 500 years ago we laugh at. We laugh at the foolishness of some Medieval religious beliefs.

    Science, religion, culture, change over time. Religion and science are asking different questions. I don't think any genuine religious person is looking to Christianity to solve the mysteries of the Higgs boson and dark matter. Outside of American Protestant fundamentalism, I do not even thiink christians are looking to their church to provide scientific explanations of evolution and genetics.

    On the other hand, I do not think science is studying or proposing a systematic system of morality or publishing studies on how to live an authentic life.

    I think there is always going to be room in humanity for a community of people to practice ritual and a systematic metaphysical moral vision that is accepted as binding because it reflects a higher truth.

    I just don't see that completely going away.
    There is only room for the "practice of ritual and metaphysical moral vision" or any practice when power does not prescribe and proscribe an alternate one.
    US protestant fundamentalism has infiltrated the US government intending to do both, and like all superstitious religions impinges on humans freedom to think.

    I therefore softly push back your implied framing of the alternatives "science" versus "religion"
    Superstitious religion is hogwash and should really enjoy no protection or rights at all except to the extent we protect the right of delusionals
    to consort with one another and mumble.

    Rather I would taxonomize and separate for academic discussion only, science and ethics/human morality. Obviously I would hope that ethics permeates all science
    in its practices and conversely, that science permeates the sociological implementation of ethical precepts. Superstitious religion does exist, but aspirationally
    it should not exist. It should not even be a thing. It is nothing more than a mistake of reason, and with it attempts of its leaders and writers to supplant or incorporate ethics
    and behavior modification.

    Science and religion cannot logically coexist except in the sense that religion is understood as complete fiction. Empiricism is the whole game, and ethics can be seen
    as a method decided upon for organization of human behaviors towards each other and the natural world. Those latter should be governed by a decision of what is
    both "good" and also forwards survival of life on our planet. These two can also be in tension.
    Last edited by Micawber; 09-28-2021 at 07:10 AM.

  3. #48 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    57,794
    Thanks
    35,484
    Thanked 50,296 Times in 27,101 Posts
    Groans
    22
    Groaned 2,975 Times in 2,692 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Micawber View Post
    There is only room for the "practice of ritual and metaphysical moral vision" or any practice when power does not prescribe and proscribe an alternate one.
    US protestant fundamentalism has infiltrated the US government intending to do both, and like all superstitious religions impinges on humans freedom to think.

    I therefore softly push back your implied framing of the alternatives "science" versus "religion"
    Superstitious religion is hogwash and should really enjoy no protection or rights at all except to the extent we protect the right of delusionals
    to consort with one another and mumble.

    Rather I would taxonomize and separate for academic discussion only, science and ethics/human morality. Obviously I would hope that ethics permeates all science
    in its practices and conversely, that science permeates the sociological implementation of ethical precepts. Superstitious religion does exist, but aspirationally
    it should not exist. It should not even be a thing. It is nothing more than a mistake of reason, and with it attempts of its leaders and writers to supplant or incorporate ethics
    and behavior modification.

    Science and religion cannot logically coexist except in the sense that religion is understood as complete fiction. Empiricism is the whole game, and ethics can be seen
    as a method decided upon for organization of human behaviors towards each other and the natural world. Those latter should be governed by a decision of what is
    both "good" and also forwards survival of life on our planet. These two can also be in tension.
    If you narrowly define religion as the fundamentalist American Protestant version of biblical literalism and biblical inerrancy, I agree that version is generally an anathema to scientific inquiry.

    My point is that religious traditions are far more broad and nuanced than the typical caricature of the bible thumpers we would like to hold out for ridicule and punishment
    .
    Religious faith can be rational. Rational does not mean it has to be objectively true. It just means it is a belief that is rational to hold based on life experience, even if empirical data is absent.

    Francis Collins, the head of the Human Genome Project and one of the world's leading geneticists is a devout Christian, and I do not doubt he is a reasonable and rational person.

    Max Stackhouse defined religion as:

    "A comprehensive worldview or 'metaphysical moral vision' that is accepted as binding because it is held to be in itself basically true and just even if all dimensions of it cannot be either fully confirmed or refuted"
    ^^ I believe that type of religious conviction is going to be with humans for a long time, and I do not see it as fundamentally at odds with scientific inquiry.

    I just believe Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus are going to be around for a very long time.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cypress For This Post:

    anatta (09-28-2021), Micawber (09-29-2021)

  5. #49 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    57,794
    Thanks
    35,484
    Thanked 50,296 Times in 27,101 Posts
    Groans
    22
    Groaned 2,975 Times in 2,692 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    I agree there is not end to religion in the near future.

    I disagree that religion is changing. New printings of religious scriptures contain the same text. Nothing has been revised.

    The only thing that changes about religion is how it is practiced.

    There were no televangelists 100 years ago, for instance.

    I don't see religion going away because people don't participate in religion to affirm their beliefs. They already believe. At least most of them do. I am convinced there are many who participate in religion, even religious leaders, who have their doubts about the basic existence of a creator being. But mostly these doubts are not discussed. To do so would violate the scriptures.

    Many people participate in religion mostly for the social aspect. By maintaining a church membership, they are part of a club, part of an organization, part of something bigger than themselves. It gives them an automatic set of friends, people who share something in common, a group to identify with. That's probably more important for most church members than reaffirming belief.
    There are a lot of elements of truth in what you wrote, even though my take on it is a little different.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Cypress For This Post:

    PoliTalker (09-28-2021)

  7. #50 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    Generally religion is virtuous and a good thing - but the people who practice are not all enlightened/"saved"
    The one very good thing about religion is you are not the be all and end all - it's not egocentric, and gawd knows we could use some more sense of community in this country

    I cant imagine just going thru life and not considering our place in the universe
    are we nothing more then protoplasm evolved from the primordial swamp?
    ~~

    I think, I think I am, therefore I am, I think.
    [Establishment:] Of course you are my bright little star,
    I've miles
    And miles
    Of files
    Pretty files of your forefather's fruit
    And now to suit our
    Great computer,
    You're magnetic ink.
    I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.

    [Inner Man:] There you go man, keep as cool as you can.
    Face piles
    And piles
    Of trials
    With smiles.
    It riles them to believe
    That you perceive
    The web they weave
    And keep on thinking free.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to anatta For This Post:

    Cypress (09-28-2021)

  9. #51 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    53,186
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 15,989 Times in 11,516 Posts
    Groans
    873
    Groaned 2,459 Times in 2,200 Posts

    Default

    I won't say that Christians are unethical. But I think their religious convictions have nothing to do with morality.

  10. #52 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    20,426
    Thanks
    1,794
    Thanked 11,074 Times in 6,784 Posts
    Groans
    888
    Groaned 1,829 Times in 1,694 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    Generally religion is virtuous and a good thing - but the people who practive are not all enlightened/"saved"
    The one very good thing about religion is you are not the be all and end all - it's not egocentric, and gawd knows we could use some more sense of community in this country

    I cant imagine just going thru life and not considering our place in the universe
    are we nothing more then protoplasm evolved from the primordial swamp?
    .
    Either the basic tenets of religion are true, or they aren't. It's understandable that people would believe because it's comforting and the alternative is too bleak to comprehend - but that doesn't make the idea of a creator truthful.

    I used to think religion was a real positive overall, because of what you stated and that it was a force for good for most people. I no longer think that. It has been co-opted by too many people with too many agendas.

    It should be private, and a "to each his own" thing. It's not that anymore.

  11. #53 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    53,186
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 15,989 Times in 11,516 Posts
    Groans
    873
    Groaned 2,459 Times in 2,200 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    Either the basic tenets of religion are true, or they aren't. It's understandable that people would believe because it's comforting and the alternative is too bleak to comprehend - but that doesn't make the idea of a creator truthful.

    I used to think religion was a real positive overall, because of what you stated and that it was a force for good for most people. I no longer think that. It has been co-opted by too many people with too many agendas.

    It should be private, and a "to each his own" thing. It's not that anymore.
    Jesus taught people should pray in public. Is there a single Christian on the planet who believes that?!

  12. #54 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    Either the basic tenets of religion are true, or they aren't. It's understandable that people would believe because it's comforting and the alternative is too bleak to comprehend - but that doesn't make the idea of a creator truthful.

    I used to think religion was a real positive overall, because of what you stated and that it was a force for good for most people. I no longer think that. It has been co-opted by too many people with too many agendas.

    It should be private, and a "to each his own" thing. It's not that anymore.
    so Ill put you down for the protoplasm that evolved from the primordial swamp. nothing more.
    Your life has no more meaning then a slug - same primordial slime.
    You eat sleep shit and fuck and die, that is all you are.

    You are not a wondrous being breathed life and an ability to see a universal perspective.
    There is no right and wrong -just legal and illegal

  13. #55 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    53,186
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 15,989 Times in 11,516 Posts
    Groans
    873
    Groaned 2,459 Times in 2,200 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    so Ill put you down for the protoplasm that evolved from the primordial swamp. nothing more.
    Your life has no more meaning then a slug - same primordial slime.
    You eat sleep shit and fuck, that is all you are.

    You are not a wondrous being breathed life and an ability to see a universal perspective.
    There is no right and wrong -just legal and illegal
    Bad philosophy. Absolutism is bad thinking.

  14. #56 | Top
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    land-locked in Ocala,FL
    Posts
    27,321
    Thanks
    30,862
    Thanked 16,758 Times in 11,557 Posts
    Groans
    1,063
    Groaned 889 Times in 847 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Micawber View Post
    This Marjorie Taylor Greene meltdown reveals an uncomfortable truth about Christianity (msn.com)

    [FONT="]“You should practice the basic thing you're taught in church: respect your neighbor,” Dingell shouted. Greene blasted back, “Taught in church, are you kidding me? Try being a Christian and supporting life!" Dingell responded, “You try being a Christian... and try treating your colleagues decently!”[/FONT]
    Dingell thinks being a Christian means being neighborly and civil. Greene thinks being a Christian means attacking anyone who supports abortion rights. But they both agree that being a Christian is morally good, and that Christianity is virtuous.
    Child torture and sacrifices are not virtuous. Have a good day.
    Abortion rights dogma can obscure human reason & harden the human heart so much that the same person who feels
    empathy for animal suffering can lack compassion for unborn children who experience lethal violence and excruciating
    pain in abortion.

    Unborn animals are protected in their nesting places, humans are not. To abort something is to end something
    which has begun. To abort life is to end it.



  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Stretch For This Post:

    Hermes Thoth (09-28-2021)

  16. #57 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Bad philosophy. Absolutism is bad thinking.
    you are absolutely without anything but what we say you are. There is no inrtinsic self worth for being a human.
    A cockroach is the same thing -no intrinsic value to being human .

  17. #58 | Top
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    53,186
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 15,989 Times in 11,516 Posts
    Groans
    873
    Groaned 2,459 Times in 2,200 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    you are absolutely without anything but what we say you are. There is no inrtinsic self worth for being a human.
    A cockroach is the same thing -no intrinsic value to being human .
    I fail to see the logic. Explain why it is either God or cockroaches.

  18. #59 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,698
    Thanks
    6,598
    Thanked 12,135 Times in 9,663 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    Either the basic tenets of religion are true, or they aren't. It's understandable that people would believe because it's comforting and the alternative is too bleak to comprehend - but that doesn't make the idea of a creator truthful.

    I used to think religion was a real positive overall, because of what you stated and that it was a force for good for most people. I no longer think that. It has been co-opted by too many people with too many agendas.

    It should be private, and a "to each his own" thing. It's not that anymore.
    So what do you want done about it?

    Anything?

  19. #60 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    71,698
    Thanks
    6,598
    Thanked 12,135 Times in 9,663 Posts
    Groans
    14
    Groaned 504 Times in 477 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    I fail to see the logic. Explain why it is either God or cockroaches.
    God is love. Tyrants and genociders prefer hate.

    The war on spirituality is waged by control freak psychos who ache to judge humanity.

    This is the real issue.

Similar Threads

  1. trump was Impeached, JPP Right Wing Morons Continue to be Morons
    By katzgar in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 12-24-2019, 02:47 PM
  2. Europe teaching Christianity in schools to fight Islamic terror
    By The Ugly Truth in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-01-2018, 06:32 PM
  3. Turkey to stop teaching evolution: right wing is jealous
    By evince in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 06-26-2017, 05:18 PM
  4. Why Did We Stop Teaching Political History?
    By anatta in forum General Politics Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-29-2016, 02:35 PM
  5. Monopoly 2008
    By Topspin in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-31-2007, 01:56 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •