Most COVID In Schools With No Mask Mandates

[reagansghost]

The problem here is that the assumption is that masks make the difference. Until we control for other factors there's no knowing if masks made any difference at all. So, the argument made in the linked article is simply meaningless drivel at this point.

heres some more 'drivel' for ya knucklehead


"What we really were able to achieve is to demonstrate that masks are effective against COVID-19, even under a rigorous and systematic evaluation that was done in the throes of the pandemic," said Ashley Styczynski, MD, who was an infectious disease fellow at Stanford University when she collaborated on the study with other colleagues at Stanford, Yale, and Innovations for Poverty Action (IPA), a large research and policy nonprofit organization that currently works in 22 countries.

"And so, I think people who have been holding out on wearing masks because [they] felt like there wasn't enough evidence for it, we're hoping this will really help bridge that gap for them," she said.


https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...d-spread-study


personally I don't mind at all when lowlife propagandists like you die from covid....but in your case you're already vaccinated and choose to spend all your free time putting other people at risk with your lies, so go fuck yourself

[PoliTalker]

Hello Nordberg,

Michigan has been a test kitchen too. The schools with mask mandates have a lot less Covid than those without that regulation. it is just that simple.

The fact that the same results are being seen all over the country supports the conclusion of this scientific study.

School Mask Mandates work.

[PoliTalker]

Hello reagansghost,

heres some more 'drivel' for ya knucklehead


"What we really were able to achieve is to demonstrate that masks are effective against COVID-19, even under a rigorous and systematic evaluation that was done in the throes of the pandemic," said Ashley Styczynski, MD, who was an infectious disease fellow at Stanford University when she collaborated on the study with other colleagues at Stanford, Yale, and Innovations for Poverty Action (IPA), a large research and policy nonprofit organization that currently works in 22 countries.

"And so, I think people who have been holding out on wearing masks because [they] felt like there wasn't enough evidence for it, we're hoping this will really help bridge that gap for them," she said.


https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...d-spread-study

From the link:

"Sept. 7, 2021 -- A large, real-world test of face masks in Bangladesh shows that masks reduce community spread of COVID-19. It also shows that surgical masks are more effective than cloth face coverings."

There you go. Another study shows the same thing the school mask mandate study showed.

This was a very large study over a long period of time. And it was conducted in a place where the Alpha variant was dominant. The study had 340,000 participants. It measured not only surgical mask results, but also cloth mask results. The masks were free to the participants, so the masks were a known form, thus ruling out any variability in the quality of the masks. Observers were stationed to see if people were actually doing what they said they were doing in the survey responses.

This was a completely different study from the school mask mandate study but it came up with the same results:

Masks Work.

[T. A. Gardner]

Hello T. A. Gardner,



Then would you agree that social distancing is an effective way to reduce the chance of transmission?

Being outdoors would do it too. Being in a classroom with open windows would help versus being in one that is windowless and using mechanical ventilation--a lot. Mechanical ventilation is retched for avoiding catching things unless you make damn sure to clean the system on a regular basis. I can almost 100% bet that doesn't happen at virtually any school. Why? Because maintenance costs money and the idiots in charge know nothing about things like ventilation systems. They think they work by magic.

That would support government limitations on the % of capacity which should be allowed inside buildings such as schools, restaurants, bars, malls, stores, public buildings, etc. wherever there are increased confirmed cases. It would also make sense to have mandatory testing so that government would have a good way to know where to implement limited capacity requirements.

I think capacity is far less important than how well the building is set up and maintained for things like air filtration and turnover of the air. For example, you could have a building with nasty clogged filters on the ventilation system that's been in use for decades, has no natural ventilation just recirc, and the rooms have low ceilings. All the social distancing in the world would make that more dangerous for contracting something airborne than a building with clean ventilation ducts, clean high filtration filters or electronic air cleaners, and a good air volume turn over with some fresh air mixed in. High ceilings would help as well.

I've actually suggested to Kathy Hoffman AZ's secretary of education (I've met her on several occasions-- she's a union hack and technical illiterate but that aside) and suggested that every Arizona classroom get an electrostatic preceptor (aka electronic air cleaner)--free standing would be sufficient. These run about $200 a crack and purchased in quantity about $150 maybe $100 each. These would clean the air in the classroom.

I put these in an electronics factory and it went from a semi-annual cold and flu season to nada in nothing flat. It also reduced the dust in the air, along with human dander and duff, down to near zero. Bet that'd do more than flimsy, poorly worn, masks would.

[PoliTalker]

Hello T. A. Gardner,

Being outdoors would do it too. Being in a classroom with open windows would help versus being in one that is windowless and using mechanical ventilation--a lot. Mechanical ventilation is retched for avoiding catching things unless you make damn sure to clean the system on a regular basis. I can almost 100% bet that doesn't happen at virtually any school. Why? Because maintenance costs money and the idiots in charge know nothing about things like ventilation systems. They think they work by magic.



I think capacity is far less important than how well the building is set up and maintained for things like air filtration and turnover of the air. For example, you could have a building with nasty clogged filters on the ventilation system that's been in use for decades, has no natural ventilation just recirc, and the rooms have low ceilings. All the social distancing in the world would make that more dangerous for contracting something airborne than a building with clean ventilation ducts, clean high filtration filters or electronic air cleaners, and a good air volume turn over with some fresh air mixed in. High ceilings would help as well.

I've actually suggested to Kathy Hoffman AZ's secretary of education (I've met her on several occasions-- she's a union hack and technical illiterate but that aside) and suggested that every Arizona classroom get an electrostatic preceptor (aka electronic air cleaner)--free standing would be sufficient. These run about $200 a crack and purchased in quantity about $150 maybe $100 each. These would clean the air in the classroom.

I put these in an electronics factory and it went from a semi-annual cold and flu season to nada in nothing flat. It also reduced the dust in the air, along with human dander and duff, down to near zero. Bet that'd do more than flimsy, poorly worn, masks would.

All of the above.

This bug is kicking our butt. We need to pull out all the stops. Better ventilation and filtration. Mandatory testing. Capacity limits. Mandatory masking. More incentives to get vaccinated.

We've already tried not doing enough.

Obviously we can't do too much. The only down side of doing too much is impacting the economy. That's survivable. We can recover from that.

The more we do, and the quicker we do it, the sooner we get control of the pandemic, and the sooner we can drop all the measures and get on with normal life.

Doing too little is what causes this thing to drag on far too long.

We are in a stalemated war.

Time for a serious surge to try to win it.

[T. A. Gardner]

Hello T. A. Gardner,



All of the above.

This bug is kicking our butt. We need to pull out all the stops. Better ventilation and filtration. Mandatory testing. Capacity limits. Mandatory masking. More incentives to get vaccinated.

We've already tried not doing enough.

Obviously we can't do too much. The only down side of doing too much is impacting the economy. That's survivable. We can recover from that.

The more we do, and the quicker we do it, the sooner we get control of the pandemic, and the sooner we can drop all the measures and get on with normal life.

Doing too little is what causes this thing to drag on far too long.

We are in a stalemated war.

Time for a serious surge to try to win it.

How much is enough? Are you advocating for zero tolerance? That is, the goal is to have zero cases?

[reagansghost]

How much is enough? Are you advocating for zero tolerance? That is, the goal is to have zero cases?

tell us again how you ended up fully vaccinated and then decided to spend your golden years defending idiots who refuse to get vaccinated

and after that, google 'hypocrite' and read more about yourself

[PoliTalker]

Hello T. A. Gardner,

How much is enough? Are you advocating for zero tolerance? That is, the goal is to have zero cases?

Yes. The goal is zero cases. If that's not possible then we want the number to be as low as possible.

Zero tolerance works pretty well for me as far as posting rudeness goes, but I don't think we can legally force every American to get vaccinated. I do believe that if we could, we would get control of the pandemic in very short order.

The answer has to lie somewhere in between the partial success we have now and finally putting the pandemic in our rear view mirror once and for all.

Our current measures are effective, but are not being used to a great enough extent to get control. We gotta pull out all the stops.

We've got to find every creative way we can think of to get more compliance.

School Mask Mandates are totally justified.

I also support School Vaccine Mandates. That is already done for other diseases. Pfizer is fully approved for ages 16 up. They are working on getting approval for ages 5-15. If/when that approval is granted, then schools should require children to be vaccinated. Employers should definitely require workers to be vaccinated. Businesses should be allowed to require proof of vaccination for the public to enter.

School classrooms are a petri dish for COVID. Children are a vehicle and highway system for the virus.

[T. A. Gardner]

Hello T. A. Gardner,



Yes. The goal is zero cases. If that's not possible then we want the number to be as low as possible.

Zero tolerance works pretty well for me as far as posting rudeness goes, but I don't think we can legally force every American to get vaccinated. I do believe that if we could, we would get control of the pandemic in very short order.

The answer has to lie somewhere in between the partial success we have now and finally putting the pandemic in our rear view mirror once and for all.

Our current measures are effective, but are not being used to a great enough extent to get control. We gotta pull out all the stops.

We've got to find every creative way we can think of to get more compliance.

School Mask Mandates are totally justified.

I also support School Vaccine Mandates. That is already done for other diseases. Pfizer is fully approved for ages 16 up. They are working on getting approval for ages 5-15. If/when that approval is granted, then schools should require children to be vaccinated. Employers should definitely require workers to be vaccinated. Businesses should be allowed to require proof of vaccination for the public to enter.

School classrooms are a petri dish for COVID. Children are a vehicle and highway system for the virus.

Then you are chasing a fool's errand. Zero tolerance rarely works. It is always expensive in some way or another to try and achieve.

[Nordberg]

How much is enough? Are you advocating for zero tolerance? That is, the goal is to have zero cases?

We do not know what herd is. It could be as low as 65 percent or as high as 90. But we are obviously not there and should strive to reach it. Zero is unfair. Nobody says that. However, once herd is achieved, it will be an insignificant amount of cases. We can go about normal lives.

[PoliTalker]

Hello T. A. Gardner,

Then you are chasing a fool's errand. Zero tolerance rarely works. It is always expensive in some way or another to try and achieve.

Hey, I was wrong. I admit it.

Turns out we actually can force every American to get vaccinated.

"1905 Supreme Court case Jacobson vs. Massachusetts. The plaintiff, Jacobson, claimed that the state of Massachusetts was violating his personal liberty by requiring smallpox vaccination. Smallpox had been mostly eliminated from the United States, but when it periodically threatened, cities and states (Cambridge, Mass., in this instance) sometimes made vaccination compulsory. The arguments by both sides are more than a century old, but you still hear them every time you turn on cable news in the debates about “freedom” and the common good, now in reaction to the Biden administration’s measures to expand vaccination requirements.

In Jacobson, a 7-2 majority upheld the compulsory vaccination law as a reasonable application of the state’s police powers. The decision is not only an important constitutional precedent; the majority opinion written by Justice John Marshall Harlan is also philosophical and eloquent. “There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good,” he wrote. “On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy.”"

So now, I'm like, what are we waiting for?

Let's just go ahead and force it.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Nordberg,

We do not know what herd is. It could be as low as 65 percent or as high as 90. But we are obviously not there and should strive to reach it. Zero is unfair. Nobody says that. However, once herd is achieved, it will be an insignificant amount of cases. We can go about normal lives.

I'm optimistic. Pandemics have come and gone throughout history. We need to remain upbeat. We can beat this thing. We should never lose sight of that goal. We will put this thing in the rear view mirror.

[Concart]

Hello T. A. Gardner,



Then would you agree that social distancing is an effective way to reduce the chance of transmission?

That would support government limitations on the % of capacity which should be allowed inside buildings such as schools, restaurants, bars, malls, stores, public buildings, etc. wherever there are increased confirmed cases. It would also make sense to have mandatory testing so that government would have a good way to know where to implement limited capacity requirements.

I heard some discussion about this. Is there more Covid in schools because there is more Covid in a particular area? The answer is no. Even with that factored in, mask mandates are protecting children. Therefore any governor who prohibits them is intentionally and negligently putting children in danger. That should be a crime, but in Trump World, it's a great resume item if you're running for President. Enough said.

[Lionfish]

[T. A. Gardner]

Hello T. A. Gardner,



Hey, I was wrong. I admit it.

Turns out we actually can force every American to get vaccinated.

"1905 Supreme Court case Jacobson vs. Massachusetts. The plaintiff, Jacobson, claimed that the state of Massachusetts was violating his personal liberty by requiring smallpox vaccination. Smallpox had been mostly eliminated from the United States, but when it periodically threatened, cities and states (Cambridge, Mass., in this instance) sometimes made vaccination compulsory. The arguments by both sides are more than a century old, but you still hear them every time you turn on cable news in the debates about “freedom” and the common good, now in reaction to the Biden administration’s measures to expand vaccination requirements.

In Jacobson, a 7-2 majority upheld the compulsory vaccination law as a reasonable application of the state’s police powers. The decision is not only an important constitutional precedent; the majority opinion written by Justice John Marshall Harlan is also philosophical and eloquent. “There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good,” he wrote. “On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy.”"

So now, I'm like, what are we waiting for?

Let's just go ahead and force it.

You have to have each state do that. The federal government can't do it. Then there's reciprocity laws to deal with. If one state decides not to mandate it, another state can't force residents of that state to get the vaccine nor can they stop them from freely traveling through and within their state because that violates the First Amendment on free association.
So, it's going to be a steep hill to climb as I suggested...