Morality Question

[Diesel]

Aren't the liberal Nanny States even arresting drunk bicycle riders? As opposed to the "Hold my beer" philosophy of Texas.

It has been illegal to ride a bike while drunk in CO for a long time. It still isn't in NY.

[Diesel]

Yep, Hawkeye is a sick fuck with an alcohol problem. What a guy.

He also smokes weed every waking moment and dabbles in some other drugs.

[Doc Dutch]

It has been illegal to ride a bike while drunk in CO for a long time. It still isn't in NY.

Now that's just sad.

[Doc Dutch]

Yep, Hawkeye is a sick fuck with an alcohol problem. What a guy.

Anyone his age who is miserable needs to get help. Not a good end.

[goat]

Are you a drug addict?

I refuse to be a guinea pig and be forced to take government/business mandated drugs.

[Walt]

Sound Transit does not give a flying fuck whether I pay or not.

So why should I?

Dont B A CHUMP!

So your morality question is "if I can get away with stealing, why not?" Well, two answers:
1) Morality says you should not steal, even if you can get away with it.
2) Why are you so sure you can get away with it?

Jonathan Paul Burrows realized he could dodge train fares, and believed he would not be arrested. He was right, but did not realized that if it were made public he would lose his extremely lucrative job as a London finance trader. If we cannot trust him with the little things, we cannot trust him with the big things.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...nathan-burrows

Paras Shah was caught stealing food from the Citibank cafeteria, and lost a job worth millions of dollars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51369410

[Hawkeye10]

So your morality question is "if I can get away with stealing, why not?" Well, two answers:
1) Morality says you should not steal, even if you can get away with it.
2) Why are you so sure you can get away with it?

Jonathan Paul Burrows realized he could dodge train fares, and believed he would not be arrested. He was right, but did not realized that if it were made public he would lose his extremely lucrative job as a London finance trader. If we cannot trust him with the little things, we cannot trust him with the big things.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...nathan-burrows

Paras Shah was caught stealing food from the Citibank cafeteria, and lost a job worth millions of dollars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51369410

Sound Transit has said straight up that for the next eight months no one will be punished for not paying, as has been the case for about a year now. If we want to ride for free then we can they say. So why should I pay....that seems stupid.....if they dont care if I pay why should I pay?

Fare ambassadors give Sound Transit a less intimidating way of checking that riders are paying their fares. The agency also wanted more diversity in their fare enforcement staff. CEO Peter Rogoff said the goal is to create more equitable fare collection processes.

“We are pleased in our new hires that they are able to reflect the diversity of the community that we’ve served,” Rogoff told the Sound Transit Board last month.

Rogoff said this shift is about passenger education and customer service, not enforcement. There will be no citations written during this eight-month pilot program, so you can essentially ride the trains for free, if you choose to.

“They will be focusing on low-income fare outreach, rather than discipline,” Rogoff said.

Just like the fare enforcement officers in the past, these new fare ambassadors will enter both ends of the train car and work toward the middle, asking everyone for proof of payment. Those who have not paid will be given a card with a QR code for the fare engagement website. It will inform them of low-income ORCA card options or subsidized passes.

https://mynorthwest.com/3144490/fare...ansit-trains/?

[Hawkeye10]

Anyone his age who is miserable needs to get help. Not a good end.

I live the good life. I large part that is what the education was for.

[Hawkeye10]

He also smokes weed every waking moment and dabbles in some other drugs.

Liar.

[Walt]

Sound Transit has said straight up that for the next eight months no one will be punished for not paying, as has been the case for about a year now. If we want to ride for free then we can they say. So why should I pay....that seems stupid.....if they dont care if I pay why should I pay?

Morally, you should not steal even if you can get away with it. You framed this as a moral question, so that is the moral answer.

Socially, you can lose social status, and be punished even if you are not criminally punished. There are many rules of society that are polite, but not legal. If you break those rules, you are punished by loss of status.

I gave two examples of people who thought they could get away with stealing small amounts of money, because they would not be criminally punished. The reality is that if people see you stealing small amounts of money, they will not trust you with large amounts of money. One of the main ways to get wealthy in modern capitalism is to have people trust you with their money.

[Hawkeye10]

Morally, you should not steal even if you can get away with it. You framed this as a moral question, so that is the moral answer.

Socially, you can lose social status, and be punished even if you are not criminally punished. There are many rules of society that are polite, but not legal. If you break those rules, you are punished by loss of status.

I gave two examples of people who thought they could get away with stealing small amounts of money, because they would not be criminally punished. The reality is that if people see you stealing small amounts of money, they will not trust you with large amounts of money. One of the main ways to get wealthy in modern capitalism is to have people trust you with their money.

It is not stealing if the provider does not care if I pay, if the paying is voluntary.

[Walt]

It is not stealing if the provider does not care if I pay, if the paying is voluntary.

The punishment for not paying your social debts has always been that people do not trust you. Sometimes it is that you go to prison on top of that, but it always comes back to people not trusting you.

[Hawkeye10]

If most everyone did not pay Sound Transit would be forced to change their policy, they would need to either demand payment or figure out a way to finance operations without fares. I argue that refusing to pay under current condition is an act of civil disobedience, forcing them to come up with a more equitable policy then allowing the chumps to pay, as the not chumps to ride for free. Of course it is not really for free, the taxpayers fund operations far more so than the users, less than 10% of their monies currently come from fares.

[Hawkeye10]

The punishment for not paying your social debts has always been that people do not trust you. Sometimes it is that you go to prison on top of that, but it always comes back to people not trusting you.

I dont trust Sound Transit, who are obligated to see to it that riders pay the legal and published charges, but are refusing to do so.

I am arguing that Sound Transit needs a tune-up, and that we the people are in a position to administer one, by refusing to pay.

[Hawkeye10]

I should point out that a little wrinkle is that I am a citizen of Thurston County, which does not pay into Sound Transit via various taxes. If I was a citizen of a Sound Transit County I would be, if we were to accept the argument that not paying the fare is stealing, I would be stealing from myself and the other taxpayers. I think this strengthens the argument that not paying as a acceptable form of civil disobedience protesting Sound Transit policy of not caring if fares are paid.