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Thread: So, where are we with herd immunity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    That is because that is not how we have been raised to understand what vaccine are. We know vaccines to be substances we take so that we dont get the problem, and they often work for life. The so-called COVID vaccines dont do that.
    No vaccine is perfect. Covid-19 vaccines are just like the rest in that regard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    No vaccine is perfect. Covid-19 vaccines are just like the rest in that regard.
    Wrong.
    Where the fuck are the men?

    America is committing suicide....how did men fail this badly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt View Post
    Smallpox had a less effective vaccine. The point is to ring the virus, but it is possible to defeat some viruses. The point is that viruses can be ended.

    Or at least some viruses can. I cannot think of a way to end tetanus, because it is everywhere. Covid-19 is limited to bodies, and does not last in the dirt for long. It would be difficult to wipe out, and maybe impossible, but also maybe possible.
    The only chance Covid was going to be Ďringedí was in the lab it was *very likely* created in. Failing that, China had a shot at containment but they allowed their infected nationals to traverse the globe while lying about human to human transmission. Why does nobody besides me seem to care about that?

    At any rate, it was game-on, after that. The rest was more or less inevitable. We know that now, right?
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    The only chance Covid was going to be ‘ringed’ was in the lab it was *very likely* created in. Failing that, China had a shot at containment but they allowed their infected nationals to traverse the globe while lying about human to human transmission. Why does nobody besides me seem to care about that?

    At any rate, it was game-on, after that. The rest was more or less inevitable. We know that now, right?
    I care. China needs to pay.
    IMPEACH 46

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    Darth Omar (09-14-2021)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressLane View Post
    I care. China needs to pay.
    There’s nobody to listen to us..that matters.
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    So - does anyone know how long natural immunity lasts, and how long it would take to achieve herd immunity if we rely on natural immunity?

    Not being snarky. If that's the plan, it's worth asking, and worth discussing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    So - does anyone know how long natural immunity lasts, and how long it would take to achieve herd immunity if we rely on natural immunity?

    Not being snarky. If that's the plan, it's worth asking, and worth discussing.
    You expecting our experts to know what is going on is sweet.
    Where the fuck are the men?

    America is committing suicide....how did men fail this badly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    So - does anyone know how long natural immunity lasts, and how long it would take to achieve herd immunity if we rely on natural immunity?

    Not being snarky. If that's the plan, it's worth asking, and worth discussing.
    It’s not the plan, so I’m not sure who’s going to answer you.
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    It’s not the plan, so I’m not sure who’s going to answer you.
    Really? You haven't been advocating for the idea of getting to herd immunity with large portions of the population just going for natural immunity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    Really? You haven't been advocating for the idea of getting to herd immunity with large portions of the population just going for natural immunity?
    Yes, what’s the matter with it?
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    Yes, what’s the matter with it?
    For that to be the plan, natural immunity has to last a long time.

    There also needs to be at least a ballpark answer to "how long will it take to get herd immunity with a combination of the current vaccination rate, and natural immunity picking up the remainder?" I've asked a bunch of times. No one even has a ballpark. Most likely because there is no evidence at all that natural immunity lasts longer than a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    For that to be the plan, natural immunity has to last a long time.

    There also needs to be at least a ballpark answer to "how long will it take to get herd immunity with a combination of the current vaccination rate, and natural immunity picking up the remainder?" I've asked a bunch of times. No one even has a ballpark. Most likely because there is no evidence at all that natural immunity lasts longer than a year.
    No evidence at all?

    ďSound data from the CDC has been especially lacking on natural immunity from prior Covid infection. On Aug. 25, Israel published the most powerful and scientifically rigorous study on the subject to date. In a sample of more than 700,000 people, natural immunity was 27 times more effective than vaccinated immunity in preventing symptomatic infections.

    Despite this evidence, U.S. public health officials continue to dismiss natural immunity, insisting that those who have recovered from Covid must still get the vaccine. Policy makers and public health leaders, and the media voices that parrot them, are inexplicably sticking to their original hypothesis that natural immunity is fleeting, even as at least 15 studies show it lasts.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-1....co/OthfAZpx6l
    ___________

    Time for my appeal to authority. The WSJ piece was written by a professor from Johns Hopkins and he is quite critical of the CDC. In short, they are politicized and canít be trusted.
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    No evidence at all?

    “Sound data from the CDC has been especially lacking on natural immunity from prior Covid infection. On Aug. 25, Israel published the most powerful and scientifically rigorous study on the subject to date. In a sample of more than 700,000 people, natural immunity was 27 times more effective than vaccinated immunity in preventing symptomatic infections.

    Despite this evidence, U.S. public health officials continue to dismiss natural immunity, insisting that those who have recovered from Covid must still get the vaccine. Policy makers and public health leaders, and the media voices that parrot them, are inexplicably sticking to their original hypothesis that natural immunity is fleeting, even as at least 15 studies show it lasts.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-1....co/OthfAZpx6l
    ___________

    Time for my appeal to authority. The WSJ piece was written by a professor from Johns Hopkins and he is quite critical of the CDC. In short, they are politicized and can’t be trusted.
    I can't open the whole article. Does it state how long natural immunity lasts? Now how strong it is - the length.

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    I'm not even going to address "the CDC can't be trusted."

    My lord, the paranoid, rampant-misinformation society we live in now. Knowledge, experience & actual study are rejected in favor of conspiracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BartenderElite View Post
    I can't open the whole article. Does it state how long natural immunity lasts? Now how strong it is - the length.
    Iíve never copy pasted a whole article and Iím not starting now but here is most of it:
    ______

    The bigger question is: Why didnít the CDC produce the research? The agency has 21,000 employees and a $15 billion annual budget. It has data on more than 40 million Americans who have tested positive for Covid and 200 million who have been vaccinated. The data include the vaccine type, dosing schedule and vaccination date. Calculating the rate of U.S. breakthrough infections and subsequent hospitalizations and deaths isnít the Manhattan Project. Itís Epidemiology 101.

    The CDCís failure to report meaningful data has left policy makers flying blind. In the absence of good data to answer the basic questions Americans have been asking, political opinions have filled the vacuum. Strong data might have prevented much of the polarization over Covid.

    Sound data from the CDC has been especially lacking on natural immunity from prior Covid infection. On Aug. 25, Israel published the most powerful and scientifically rigorous study on the subject to date. In a sample of more than 700,000 people, natural immunity was 27 times more effective than vaccinated immunity in preventing symptomatic infections.

    Despite this evidence, U.S. public health officials continue to dismiss natural immunity, insisting that those who have recovered from Covid must still get the vaccine. Policy makers and public health leaders, and the media voices that parrot them, are inexplicably sticking to their original hypothesis that natural immunity is fleeting, even as at least 15 studies show it lasts.

    Meanwhile, employers fire workers with natural immunity who wonít get vaccinated. Schools disenroll students who wonít comply.

    The CDC did put out a study on natural immunity last month, forcefully concluding that vaccinated immunity was 2.3 times better than natural immunity. The CDC used these results to justify telling those with natural immunity to get vaccinated.

    But the rate of infection in each group was less than 0.01%, meaning infections were exceedingly rare in the short two-month time period the agency chose to study. This is odd, given there are more than a year of data available. Moreover, despite having data on all 50 states, the CDC only reported data from Kentucky. Was Kentucky the only state that produced the desired result? Why else exclude the same data from the other 49 states?

    Some public health officials are afraid to acknowledge natural immunity because they fear some will choose infection over vaccination. But leaders can encourage all Americans who arenít immune to get vaccinated and be transparent with the data at the same time.

    The CDC shouldnít fish for data to support outdated hypotheses. Heeding the robust Israeli data on natural immunity could help restore the agencyís credibility and even help vaccination efforts.

    Israel also contributed a brilliant study on vaccinating children. Researchers found that one dose of the Pfizer vaccine, instead of the normal two, was 100% effective in children ages 12 to 15. Such a finding could have significant implications for achieving broad immunity in adolescents while reducing the risk of heart complications, which have been clustered around the second dose.

    These are the studies U.S. public health agencies should be doing but arenít. By any metric, the CDC has failed in its primary task of preparing the country for a pandemic and telling us how to reduce harm from the novel Covid pathogen.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-1....co/OthfAZpx6l
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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