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Thread: Can We Learn From History?

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    Default Can We Learn From History?

    Contrary to the beliefs of some, this country was founded as a Democratic/Republic. As such it believed in little things such as honesty, truth, and what we call the "American Way" The Founders feared the corruption that came with corporate greed, and income inequality, and strove to remedy that with what has been termed as the "American Experiment". Now we stand to see that destroyed by one Party dominance, and the other Parties weakness. Can we as a nation fix that, or is it too late?

    "The U.S. Constitution owes a huge debt to ancient Rome. The Founding Fathers were well-versed in Greek and Roman History. Leaders like Thomas Jefferson and James Madison read the historian Polybius, who laid out one of the clearest descriptions of the Roman Republic’s constitution, where representatives of various factions and social classes checked the power of the elites and the power of the mob. It’s not surprising that in the United States’ nascent years, comparisons to ancient Rome were common. And to this day, Rome, whose 482-year-long Republic, bookended by several hundred years of monarchy and 1,500 years of imperial rule, is still the longest the world has seen.

    Aspects of our modern politics reminded University of California San Diego historian Edward Watts of the last century of the Roman Republic, roughly 130 B.C. to 27 B.C. That’s why he took a fresh look at the period in his 2018 book Mortal Republic: How Rome Fell Into Tyranny. Watts chronicles the ways the republic, with a population once devoted to national service and personal honor, was torn to shreds by growing wealth inequality, partisan gridlock, political violence and pandering politicians, and argues that the people of Rome chose to let their democracy die by not protecting their political institutions, eventually turning to the perceived stability of an emperor instead of facing the continued violence of an unstable and degraded republic. Political messaging during the 2018 midterm elections hinged on many of these exact topics.

    Though he does not directly compare and contrast Rome with the United States, Watts says that what took place in Rome is a lesson for all modern republics. “Above all else, the Roman Republic teaches the citizens of its modern descendants the incredible dangers that come along with condoning political obstruction and courting political violence,” he writes. “Roman history could not more clearly show that, when citizens look away as their leaders engage in these corrosive behaviors, their republic is in mortal danger.”

    https://getpocket.com/explore/item/l...=pocket-newtab
    "2Timothy 3 "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away"

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    Lol we aren't even close to being as stable as Rome. Better to read on the forebears of the Persians, the Medes.

    Their degeneration was even more rapid than their rise. Astyages, who succeeded his father Cyaxares, proved again that monarchy is a gamble, in whose royal succession great wits and madness are near allied. He inherited the kingdom with equanimity, and settled down to enjoy it. Under his example the nation forgot its stern morals and stoic ways; wealth had come too suddenly to be wisely used. The upper classes became the slaves of fashion and luxury, the men wore embroidered trousers, the women covered themselves with cosmetics and jewelry, the very horses were often caparisoned in gold.7 These once simple and pastoral people, who had been glad to be carried in rude wagons with wheels cut roughly out of the trunks of trees,8 now rode in expensive chariots from feast to feast. The early kings had prided themselves on justice; but Astyages, being displeased with Harpagus, served up to him the dismembered and headless body of his own son, and forced him to eat of it.9 Harpagus ate, saying that whatever a king did was agreeable to him; but he revenged himself by helping Cyrus to depose Astyages.
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    the emperors exchanged Mars for Venus, and the nation descended into corruption and apathy. The decline of Persia anticipated almost in detail the decline of Rome: immorality and degeneration among the people accompanied violence and negligence on the throne. The Persians, like the Medes before them, passed from stoicism to epicureanism in a few generations. Eating became the principal occupation of the aristocracy: these men who had once made it a rule to eat but once a day now interpreted the rule to allow them one meal—prolonged from noon to night; they stocked their larders with a thousand delicacies, and often served entire animals to their guests; they stuffed themselves with rich rare meats, and spent their genius upon new sauces and desserts.140a A corrupt and corrupting multitude of menials filled the houses of the wealthy, while drunkenness became the common vice of every class.
    Hmmmm
    WATERMARK, GREATEST OF THE TRINITY, ON CHIK-FIL-A
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Freud View Post
    The fields of mediocre chicken sandwiches shall be sowed with salt, so that nothing may ever grow there again.
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    .
    It is in the nature of an empire to disintegrate soon, for the energy that created it disappears from those who inherit it, at the very time that its subject peoples are gathering strength to fight for their lost liberty. Nor is it natural that nations diverse in language, religion, morals and traditions should long remain united; there is nothing organic in such a union, and compulsion must repeatedly be applied to maintain the artificial bond.
    WATERMARK, GREATEST OF THE TRINITY, ON CHIK-FIL-A
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Freud View Post
    The fields of mediocre chicken sandwiches shall be sowed with salt, so that nothing may ever grow there again.
    www.gunsbeerfreedom.blogspot.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Trapper View Post
    Can We Learn From History?
    We can, we should, we would...if we did not suck so badly as we do.

    Buckle Up.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Trapper View Post
    Contrary to the beliefs of some, this country was founded as a Democratic/Republic. As such it believed in little things such as honesty, truth, and what we call the "American Way" The Founders feared the corruption that came with corporate greed, and income inequality, and strove to remedy that with what has been termed as the "American Experiment". Now we stand to see that destroyed by one Party dominance, and the other Parties weakness. Can we as a nation fix that, or is it too late?

    "The U.S. Constitution owes a huge debt to ancient Rome. The Founding Fathers were well-versed in Greek and Roman History. Leaders like Thomas Jefferson and James Madison read the historian Polybius, who laid out one of the clearest descriptions of the Roman Republic’s constitution, where representatives of various factions and social classes checked the power of the elites and the power of the mob. It’s not surprising that in the United States’ nascent years, comparisons to ancient Rome were common. And to this day, Rome, whose 482-year-long Republic, bookended by several hundred years of monarchy and 1,500 years of imperial rule, is still the longest the world has seen.

    Aspects of our modern politics reminded University of California San Diego historian Edward Watts of the last century of the Roman Republic, roughly 130 B.C. to 27 B.C. That’s why he took a fresh look at the period in his 2018 book Mortal Republic: How Rome Fell Into Tyranny. Watts chronicles the ways the republic, with a population once devoted to national service and personal honor, was torn to shreds by growing wealth inequality, partisan gridlock, political violence and pandering politicians, and argues that the people of Rome chose to let their democracy die by not protecting their political institutions, eventually turning to the perceived stability of an emperor instead of facing the continued violence of an unstable and degraded republic. Political messaging during the 2018 midterm elections hinged on many of these exact topics.

    Though he does not directly compare and contrast Rome with the United States, Watts says that what took place in Rome is a lesson for all modern republics. “Above all else, the Roman Republic teaches the citizens of its modern descendants the incredible dangers that come along with condoning political obstruction and courting political violence,” he writes. “Roman history could not more clearly show that, when citizens look away as their leaders engage in these corrosive behaviors, their republic is in mortal danger.”

    https://getpocket.com/explore/item/l...=pocket-newtab
    Sure there is a lesson to learn from history when it comes to never lawlessly hacking another tyrant like tRump in there that came with a curse of epic proportions and also a lesson to ensure republicans never gain the upper hand on U.S. governance as a result of demonstrating their own way of waging war on Democracy, U.S. Constitutional law, society and the common decency of global civilization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gemini104104 View Post
    Sure there is a lesson to learn from history when it comes to never lawlessly hacking another tyrant like tRump in there that came with a curse of epic proportions and also a lesson to ensure republicans never gain the upper hand on U.S. governance as a result of demonstrating their own way of waging war on Democracy, U.S. Constitutional law, society and the common decency of global civilization.
    At the founding of the country these factors were taken into consideration, and used as a basis for the ideology they wanted so the country could survive. With the election of cowards, corporate lackeys and liars, like Reagan, a master of propaganda, that all changed. No one is saying the Founders were perfect, but they gave the people the basis for establishing a better country then what we have today. As the article says: "Watts chronicles the ways the republic, with a population once devoted to national service and personal honor, was torn to shreds by growing wealth inequality, partisan gridlock, political violence and pandering politicians, and argues that the people of Rome chose to let their democracy die by not protecting their political institutions, eventually turning to the perceived stability of an emperor instead of facing the continued violence of an unstable and degraded republic." The "secret" was national honor, not the disgrace we have see with the likes of Pelosi, McCarthy, McConnell, and the worse of all, trump.
    "2Timothy 3 "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away"

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    I like this and am dropping it here. From the story Time wrote talking about why they named Hitler Man of the Year:

    A generation ago western civilization had apparently outgrown the major evils of barbarism except for war between nations. The Russian Communist Revolution promoted the evil of class war. Hitler topped it by another, race war. Fascism and Communism both resurrected religious war. These multiple forms of barbarism gave shape in 1938 to an issue over which men may again, perhaps soon, shed blood: the issue of civilized liberty v. barbaric authoritarianism.
    http://content.time.com/time/magazin...0539-2,00.html


    Currently civilized liberty is losing big time.
    This illegal illegitimate regime that runs America is at fault...not me.... they do not represent me and I have long objected to their crimes against humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by /MSG/ View Post
    Lol we aren't even close to being as stable as Rome. Better to read on the forebears of the Persians, the Medes.
    We covered that quote before. Will Durant was at best a third rate historian. He based some of his work on the Greeks (who did not like the Persians) and then based the rest on his own imagination.

    rude wagons with wheels cut roughly out of the trunks of trees
    That seems reasonable, but is impossible. Tree trunks have rings. If you make a wheel out of a tree trunk, the vertical pressure would make the rings collapse, and would turn the wheel into a ski. While the quote seemed reasonable to a early 20th century third rate historian, it was meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gemini104104 View Post
    Sure there is a lesson to learn from history when it comes to never lawlessly hacking another tyrant like tRump in there that came with a curse of epic proportions and also a lesson to ensure republicans never gain the upper hand on U.S. governance as a result of demonstrating their own way of waging war on Democracy, U.S. Constitutional law, society and the common decency of global civilization.
    Trump!
    Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

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    Pelosi provides the bread......Biden is the circus.....
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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