Einstein vs. Bohr

[AProudLefty]

Yes. I knew that. What is your point?

Two points:

1. The objective/subjective observation of the universe (Newtonian model and QM model).
2. the ancient philosophers have already conceived of that way before Jesus was born.

[BidenPresident]

Two points:

1. The objective/subjective observation of the universe (Newtonian model and QM model).
2. the ancient philosophers have already conceived of that way before Jesus was born.

Number 1, I just don't understand. Can you explain in more detail?

Number 2, historically accurate. Not sure what the point is.

[AProudLefty]

Number 1, I just don't understand. Can you explain in more detail?

This is what the OP said:

For sure. It drove Einstein nuts.
The overarching question concerns whether the quantum waveform representatives objective reality or is it just the subjective knowledge of an observer?

Number 2, historically accurate. Not sure what the point is.

I forgot my main point but I do remember my minor point. LOL.

With all those ideas why were they slow to progress until NOW? Took over 2,000 years.

[BidenPresident]

This is what the OP said:






I forgot my main point but I do remember my minor point. LOL.

With all those ideas why were they slow to progress until NOW? Took over 2,000 years.

I don't think scientists ever abandoned the atomic idea. I think Galileo and others introduced the mathematical method to be more accurate in measuring things.

[AProudLefty]

I don't think scientists ever abandoned the atomic idea. I think Galileo and others introduced the mathematical method to be more accurate in measuring things.

That was something like 1,500 years later.

[BidenPresident]

That was something like 1,500 years later.

Yes. Heisenberg (or Bohr?) wrote an actual history of science. He argued that there was no Scientific Revolution and science just evolves.
He wrote in detail about ancient Greek physics and showed it was mathematical.

[AProudLefty]

Yes. Heisenberg (or Bohr?) wrote an actual history of science. He argued that there was no Scientific Revolution and science just evolves.
He wrote in detail about ancient Greek physics and showed it was mathematical.

The Renaissance was God's gift to humanity after he said, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!"

[BidenPresident]

The Renaissance was God's gift to humanity after he said, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!"

I think Heisenberg made a convincing argument. If you look closely at the history of science you see more continuity.

[AProudLefty]

I think Heisenberg made a convincing argument. If you look closely at the history of science you see more continuity.

Heisenberg is the one who created the Uncertainty Principle.

Basically one cannot state what a subatomic particle's momentum and position are at the same time after observation (notice that this one is what they are talking about subjective observation?).

For example, a hydrogen atom has one electron orbing around it. It is not accurate to say that it's "orbiting". It is more accurate to say that it has a cloud around it.

Once one observes it, it stops. How much information can one draw from it?

[AProudLefty]

This is what the hydrogen electron cloud looks like.

[AProudLefty]

I think I have a headache looking at this one. Is that how it is at subatomic level?

[AProudLefty]

Now I have an headache. Thanks Cypress.

[Cypress]

I think I have a headache looking at this one. Is that how it is at subatomic level?

The philosophical question is whether we are seeing the subatomic world as it actually is, or are we seeing sensory images processed by our technology to make it accessible to our cognitive framework.

[Cypress]

Now I have an headache. Thanks Cypress.

I always say the mind has to be exercised as much as the body.

[AProudLefty]

The philosophical question is whether we are seeing the subatomic world as it actually is, or are we seeing sensory images processed by our technology to make it accessible to our cognitive framework.

Well your OP is about the clash between Einstein and Bohr.

Then you talked about the reality being objective or subjective.

I said both are correct at the same time.