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Thread: Dow closes above 35,000 for the first time. God Bless President Biden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    are monopoly capitalists really capitalists?
    Honesty according to true Libertarians the history of the World has been about 99.999% non free market Capitalism.

    Closest examples of Free Market Capitalism are mostly Black.
    Like Somalia or Cayman Islands.

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    We won everything in the last election. You can thank Trump.

    Do proceed on this same course, you degenerate scum.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Micawber For This Post:

    Joe Capitalist (07-24-2021)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    ok.
    Id much rather discuss Fascism.

    Rather than the typical forum flailings of mask off, mask on, vax on, vax off Biden, Trump herpes derpity doo.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    the joining together of state and corporate interests in a monolithic power structure.
    That is communism, not socialism. In fascism, corporations are still privately owned, but government manipulates their operations. Government tells a corporation what to sell, who it can sell to, who it must buy from, what price is can ask for it's product (price controls), etc.
    Yes...fascism existed in the United States, and still exists in the States of America today.
    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    generally it keeps profits rolling in and corrupt politicians in power.
    Often true, but not always.
    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    sometimes it involves manipulating markets. your definition is oversimple.
    It always involves manipulating markets. It is the one characteristic defining this economic system. It is government telling businesses what they can sell, who they can sell to, what price they must offer for their product, and a whole host of rules like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    communism is the same but with less transparency and a state seal plastered everywhere instead of corporate logos.
    Communism is government ownership of markets. You have just described this too, in your own way. Under communism, government owns the business outright. They own all the property outright. Examples are the concrete and steel markets in China, owned by the government outright.

    China also practices fascism, telling companies what they can sell, who they can sell to, the price they must offer, where they must buy from, who they must hire, who they must fire, etc. Sound familiar? It happens in the States as well. For each of these cases, some ruling body in government (an oligarchy) dictates these terms.

    Examples in the federal government of oligarchies implementing fascism are the EPA, the FAA, the FCC, the Federal Reserve, the BATF, the NEA, the Social Security system, the Agricultural dept., the Consumer Products Protection Agency. There are others, of course. In each of these cases, these agencies manipulate markets. They tell private businesses what to sell, how much they can sell it for, who they can hire, who they can fire, who they must buy from, etc.

    Examples in the federal government of oligarchies implementing communism are the Social Security system, the Welfare system, the Agricultural dept. There are others, of course. In each of these cases, government owns the wealth by simply taking it and distributing a fraction of it (usually a small fraction) to others that they figure deserve it more than you do.

    Racism and bigotry often play a role in such government oligarchies defining groups that are entitled to special prices, special deals, special treatment, banned from buying, banned from selling, etc.


    We actually agree to a certain extent on what fascism and communism is.

    Fascism is government manipulation of markets. This is not an oversimplification. It is the one central feature of fascism, no matter how government actually conducts it or how abusive said government might be in other ways.
    Communism is government ownership of markets. This is not an oversimplification. It is the one central feature of communism, no matter how government actually conducts it or how abusive said government might be in other ways.

    Both are government interference. Both are theft of wealth. Both are forms of socialism. Neither create wealth. They only steal it.

    Wealth can only be created by capitalism. Capitalism must exist somewhere for socialism to exist. There must be somewhere to steal wealth from. When socialism runs out of victims, it collapses. The government that implemented it is then most vulnerable to destruction.

    This is what happened to Italy, what happened to Nazi Germany, and what happened to the USSR.
    It's happened to China too. Most of China's history is racked with almost continuous violent revolutions. This is why.
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome

    Everything else debunked here

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    That is communism, not socialism. In fascism, corporations are still privately owned, but government manipulates their operations. Government tells a corporation what to sell, who it can sell to, who it must buy from, what price is can ask for it's product (price controls), etc.
    Yes...fascism existed in the United States, and still exists in the States of America today.

    Often true, but not always.

    It always involves manipulating markets. It is the one characteristic defining this economic system. It is government telling businesses what they can sell, who they can sell to, what price they must offer for their product, and a whole host of rules like this.


    Communism is government ownership of markets. You have just described this too, in your own way. Under communism, government owns the business outright. They own all the property outright. Examples are the concrete and steel markets in China, owned by the government outright.

    China also practices fascism, telling companies what they can sell, who they can sell to, the price they must offer, where they must buy from, who they must hire, who they must fire, etc. Sound familiar? It happens in the States as well. For each of these cases, some ruling body in government (an oligarchy) dictates these terms.

    Examples in the federal government of oligarchies implementing fascism are the EPA, the FAA, the FCC, the Federal Reserve, the BATF, the NEA, the Social Security system, the Agricultural dept., the Consumer Products Protection Agency. There are others, of course. In each of these cases, these agencies manipulate markets. They tell private businesses what to sell, how much they can sell it for, who they can hire, who they can fire, who they must buy from, etc.

    Examples in the federal government of oligarchies implementing communism are the Social Security system, the Welfare system, the Agricultural dept. There are others, of course. In each of these cases, government owns the wealth by simply taking it and distributing a fraction of it (usually a small fraction) to others that they figure deserve it more than you do.

    Racism and bigotry often play a role in such government oligarchies defining groups that are entitled to special prices, special deals, special treatment, banned from buying, banned from selling, etc.


    We actually agree to a certain extent on what fascism and communism is.

    Fascism is government manipulation of markets. This is not an oversimplification. It is the one central feature of fascism, no matter how government actually conducts it or how abusive said government might be in other ways.
    Communism is government ownership of markets. This is not an oversimplification. It is the one central feature of communism, no matter how government actually conducts it or how abusive said government might be in other ways.

    Both are government interference. Both are theft of wealth. Both are forms of socialism. Neither create wealth. They only steal it.

    Wealth can only be created by capitalism. Capitalism must exist somewhere for socialism to exist. There must be somewhere to steal wealth from. When socialism runs out of victims, it collapses. The government that implemented it is then most vulnerable to destruction.

    This is what happened to Italy, what happened to Nazi Germany, and what happened to the USSR.
    It's happened to China too. Most of China's history is racked with almost continuous violent revolutions. This is why.
    Exaggerated.
    Germany & China were leaders of mass murder & Human misery long before becoming Communist or Fascist.

  7. #111 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    That is communism, not socialism. In fascism, corporations are still privately owned, but government manipulates their operations. Government tells a corporation what to sell, who it can sell to, who it must buy from, what price is can ask for it's product (price controls), etc.
    Yes...fascism existed in the United States, and still exists in the States of America today.

    Often true, but not always.

    It always involves manipulating markets. It is the one characteristic defining this economic system. It is government telling businesses what they can sell, who they can sell to, what price they must offer for their product, and a whole host of rules like this.


    Communism is government ownership of markets. You have just described this too, in your own way. Under communism, government owns the business outright. They own all the property outright. Examples are the concrete and steel markets in China, owned by the government outright.

    China also practices fascism, telling companies what they can sell, who they can sell to, the price they must offer, where they must buy from, who they must hire, who they must fire, etc. Sound familiar? It happens in the States as well. For each of these cases, some ruling body in government (an oligarchy) dictates these terms.

    Examples in the federal government of oligarchies implementing fascism are the EPA, the FAA, the FCC, the Federal Reserve, the BATF, the NEA, the Social Security system, the Agricultural dept., the Consumer Products Protection Agency. There are others, of course. In each of these cases, these agencies manipulate markets. They tell private businesses what to sell, how much they can sell it for, who they can hire, who they can fire, who they must buy from, etc.

    Examples in the federal government of oligarchies implementing communism are the Social Security system, the Welfare system, the Agricultural dept. There are others, of course. In each of these cases, government owns the wealth by simply taking it and distributing a fraction of it (usually a small fraction) to others that they figure deserve it more than you do.

    Racism and bigotry often play a role in such government oligarchies defining groups that are entitled to special prices, special deals, special treatment, banned from buying, banned from selling, etc.


    We actually agree to a certain extent on what fascism and communism is.

    Fascism is government manipulation of markets. This is not an oversimplification. It is the one central feature of fascism, no matter how government actually conducts it or how abusive said government might be in other ways.
    Communism is government ownership of markets. This is not an oversimplification. It is the one central feature of communism, no matter how government actually conducts it or how abusive said government might be in other ways.

    Both are government interference. Both are theft of wealth. Both are forms of socialism. Neither create wealth. They only steal it.

    Wealth can only be created by capitalism. Capitalism must exist somewhere for socialism to exist. There must be somewhere to steal wealth from. When socialism runs out of victims, it collapses. The government that implemented it is then most vulnerable to destruction.

    This is what happened to Italy, what happened to Nazi Germany, and what happened to the USSR.
    It's happened to China too. Most of China's history is racked with almost continuous violent revolutions. This is why.
    word games.


    are monopoly capitalists still captalists?
    Morality is a set of attitudes and behaviors which facilitate voluntary, cooperative and mutually beneficial relationships. --AssHatZombie

    Obamagate is Operation Crossfire Hurricane

    internationalist fascism: the belief that the interests of multinational corporations should be the sole focus of all national trade policies.

    CRT Segregationists of the left https://www.racialequitytools.org/re...ffinity-groups

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kielbasa View Post
    The USA is generally directly opposite of Fascism.
    In the USA corporations run the government in Fascism government runs the corporations.
    There is no USA. The United States has fallen.

    In communism the government runs the corporations. In fascism, government orders corporations around a lot, but the corporations are still privately run.
    Both communism and fascism exist in the States of America. They both have existed for a long time in the United States.

    So has capitalism.

    Fascism, communism, and capitalism can and do exist together in the same place. Indeed, both fascism and communism could not exist without the wealth capitalism creates. Both fascism and communism must have some place to steal wealth from.
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome

    Everything else debunked here

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    it's the same people. it's a word game.
    It is not the same. YOU are trying to make it a word game.
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome

    Everything else debunked here

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kielbasa View Post
    I disagree on Fascism pre dating Mussolini.
    Councils which control Corporations were not around during Plato.
    Prove, otherwise?
    Businesses, not corporations. Rome. Venice. Greece. Israel. Egypt. Shall I go on?
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    There is no USA. The United States has fallen.

    In communism the government runs the corporations. In fascism, government orders corporations around a lot, but the corporations are still privately run.
    Both communism and fascism exist in the States of America. They both have existed for a long time in the United States.

    So has capitalism.

    Fascism, communism, and capitalism can and do exist together in the same place. Indeed, both fascism and communism could not exist without the wealth capitalism creates. Both fascism and communism must have some place to steal wealth from.
    The political spectrum should be a triangle Fascism vs Communism vs Libertarianism.

    All governments fall between the 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    too simple. it's policies, regulations, all kinds of things.
    All designed around controlling markets.
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome

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    Quote Originally Posted by Into the Night View Post
    Businesses, not corporations. Rome. Venice. Greece. Israel. Egypt. Shall I go on?
    Which Councils did they have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    are monopoly capitalists really capitalists?
    Yes. Monopolies are inherently self destructive as well. When a company becomes a monopoly, it isn't very long before some small company comes along and shoot's it's kneecaps off. Such large companies can't maneuver fast enough in the market to get out of the way. They often don't even notice such a small company like this until it's too late.

    Monopolies can ONLY be continued, safe from competition, through fascism. It requires government manipulation of markets to keep such a small company forming to come along and disturb the monopoly.
    In communism, of course the monopoly IS the government.
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Kielbasa View Post
    He probably thinks the early USA was Fascist due to corporate charters.
    Yes. That was fascism. Capitalism also existed in the USA.
    "Propaganda can also be factual." --Flash
    "Even after being vaccinated, you shed virus particles." --Jerome

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    Initially, the privilege of incorporation was granted selectively to enable activities that benefited the public, such as construction of roads or canals. Enabling shareholders to profit was seen as a means to that end. The states also imposed conditions (some of which remain on the books, though unused) like these*:

    Corporate charters (licenses to exist) were granted for a limited time and could be revoked promptly for violating laws.
    Corporations could engage only in activities necessary to fulfill their chartered purpose.
    Corporations could not own stock in other corporations nor own any property that was not essential to fulfilling their chartered purpose.
    Corporations were often terminated if they exceeded their authority or caused public harm.
    Owners and managers were responsible for criminal acts committed on the job.
    Corporations could not make any political or charitable contributions nor spend money to influence law-making.

    https://reclaimdemocracy.org/corpora...rporations-us/

    we need to go back to this.

    corporations are destroying the world.

    no. it's not socialist to not let corporations take over everything.

    I call it populism. it differs from socialism becauce socialism is just an excuse to centralize everthing, then privatize it to crony friends and put a state seal over it.
    Morality is a set of attitudes and behaviors which facilitate voluntary, cooperative and mutually beneficial relationships. --AssHatZombie

    Obamagate is Operation Crossfire Hurricane

    internationalist fascism: the belief that the interests of multinational corporations should be the sole focus of all national trade policies.

    CRT Segregationists of the left https://www.racialequitytools.org/re...ffinity-groups

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