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Thread: Immanuel Kant vs. John Stuart Mill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Encyclopedia Britannica is a highly reputable source and it confirms and corroborates exactly what I said about Hume.
    repeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    repeat.
    I am not going to indulge your argument that Encyclopedia Britannica is wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Hume's skepticism seems self evident to me. He thought all our mind has access to is experiences filtered through sensory perception - and we therefore can never have actual knowlege of objective reality.

    Encyclopedia Britannica

    Hume tried to describe how the mind works in acquiring what is called knowledge. He concluded that no theory of reality is possible; there can be no knowledge of anything .

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/David-Hume

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I am not going to indulge your argument that Encyclopedia Britannica is wrong.
    zzzzzzzzz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Mill's view of ethics was utilitarian and situational. I thought the quote you posted was making the case a moral reality is universal and objectively true. May be I read the quote wrong.
    Kant is moral absolutism and Mill is metaphysics that transcends culture. Consequentialism or karma is universal and something one brings upon oneself. We can see the consequences of an immoral government with BLM and 6.Jan; John Stuart Mill actually brought about reform of a corrupt system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goat View Post
    Kant is moral absolutism and Mill is metaphysics that transcends culture. Consequentialism or karma is universal and something one brings upon oneself. We can see the consequences of an immoral government with BLM and 6.Jan; John Stuart Mill actually brought about reform of a corrupt system.
    That has been the debate for 200 years: categorical moral imperatives or utilitarianism.

    I think you are correct that Mill was more effective at least in the broader realm of culture and politics. Social contract theory was right up his alley, and we can give him substantial credit for the evolution of modern western liberalism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    That has been the debate for 200 years: categorical moral imperatives or utilitarianism.

    I think you are correct that Mill was more effective at least in the broader realm of culture and politics. Social contract theory was right up his alley, and we can give him substantial credit for the evolution of modern western liberalism.
    Well said. You explained it better than I could have. A lot of those on-line universities use Kant as an introduction to ethics, so the net is filled with Kantians who argue in favor of absolutism. I spent countless hours trying to show that some principles are universal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goat View Post
    Well said. You explained it better than I could have. A lot of those on-line universities use Kant as an introduction to ethics, so the net is filled with Kantians who argue in favor of absolutism. I spent countless hours trying to show that some principles are universal.
    Have you ever bothered to actually read anything by Kant?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Have you ever bothered to actually read anything by Kant?
    Thread killer.

    You missed out on what I had to say about John Stuart Mill. Cypress talked about social contract theory but Mill went further and may be the grandfather of an economic bill of rights. If we are to survive as a nation, people need an economic bill of rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goat View Post
    Thread killer.

    You missed out on what I had to say about John Stuart Mill. Cypress talked about social contract theory but Mill went further and may be the grandfather of an economic bill of rights. If we are to survive as a nation, people need an economic bill of rights.
    So, you never read Kant.

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    Neophytes like Cypress will never understand philosophy. They do not understand the difference between knowledge and right opinion.

    They think philosophy is about having the right opinions rather than an inquiry into knowledge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Neophytes like Cypress will never understand philosophy. They do not understand the difference between knowledge and right opinion.

    They think philosophy is about having the right opinions rather than an inquiry into knowledge.
    That is a weird thing to claim about me, and it is not even remotely corroborated by the facts..

    By far, on this forum I have posted the most diverse and wide ranging threads on the pantheon of human intellectual and religious traditions.
    https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...83#post3841983
    Largely because I do not think any one tradition or school of thought has a monopoly on knowlege and truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    That is a weird thing to claim about me, and it is not even remotely demostrated by the facts..

    By far, I have posted the most diverse and wide ranging threads on the pantheon of human intellectual and religious traditions.
    https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...83#post3841983
    Largely because I do not think any one tradition or school of thought has a monopoly on knowlege and truth.

    Okay, you are right. You win. You are right, right, right.

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    I lean towards Kant.
    Morality & virtues feel different to the Human psyche vs negative immoral actions which are harmful.
    One causes in normal people a feeling of peace & serenity & the other guilt & anxiety.

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    I agree with universal morality.
    But, Humans over override such, when fighting for survival.
    Logic & Morale aren't necessarily one of the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Sobieski View Post
    I lean towards Kant.
    Morality & virtues feel different to the Human psyche vs negative immoral actions which are harmful.
    One causes in normal people a feeling of peace & serenity & the other guilt & anxiety.
    The Chinese philosopher Mencius is reputed to have said that all humans would be struck by a feeling of panic and concern if we see a child fall in a well.

    There does not seem to be a biological evolutionary reason why panic and concern would well up in us upon seeing a stranger fall into a well. Mencius seemed to think this indicated humans are embued with a latent empathy or morality which did not result by accident, training, or evolution.

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