The Reckoning we Need to Ensure a "More Perfect Union"

[Whythink]

Okay. You want to deny your own statements again. Meh. Anyone that wants to can go look for themselves.

So you cannot show where I suggested reparations!!!

Thanks for sharing.

[Into the Night]

So you cannot show where I suggested reparations!!!

Thanks for sharing.

Okay. You want to deny your own statements again. Meh. Anyone that wants to can go look for themselves.

[Whythink]

Okay. You want to deny your own statements again. Meh. Anyone that wants to can go look for themselves.

You said you are a leftist who supports CRT, BLM, socialism, and President Biden.


You want to deny your own statements again. Meh. Anyone that wants to can go look for themselves

See how full of BS a baseless accusation with no evidence (because it doesn't exist) is?

[T. A. Gardner]

What do you say to a family that moved to the US after 1865? Or, one that lived in some part of the US not incorporated into the US prior to 1865? Or, those that lived in territories of the US that weren't actually states prior to 1865 since they had no real say in federal or national politics just as say, Puerto Rico is today?

[Into the Night]

You said you are a leftist who supports CRT, BLM, socialism, and President Biden.

Never did. Your a liar. You make up shit about what I said, and you deny what you said. You're a liar.

You want to deny your own statements again. Meh.

I am not denying my own statements.

Anyone that wants to can go look for themselves

That they can.

See how full of BS a baseless accusation with no evidence (because it doesn't exist) is?

False equivalence fallacy. Denial of self argument (paradox).

[Into the Night]

What do you say to a family that moved to the US after 1865? Or, one that lived in some part of the US not incorporated into the US prior to 1865? Or, those that lived in territories of the US that weren't actually states prior to 1865 since they had no real say in federal or national politics just as say, Puerto Rico is today?

I don't say anything. I wasn't born yet. Is there a point here?

[T. A. Gardner]

I don't say anything. I wasn't born yet. Is there a point here?

Yes. The OP tries to make the argument that it doesn't matter what your personal history is / was, what's important is your ethnicity. That alone makes you guilty of the past sins of some unrelated persons who share some vague resemblance to you. Thus, all Whites are guilty of the sins of slavery and all Blacks victims, regardless of whether your ancestors participated in some way or not. Even worse, it absolves Blacks of being slave owners, which some were.

The whole thing smacks of a shallow, childish, exercise in mental gymnastics that defies all logic. But then again, that pretty much defines about 99% of Leftist thinking.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

What's the UN got to do with anything discussed here?

It is also theft.

Very true.

I've been telling him this for several posts now. Thanks for your support.

your mama.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

I don't say anything. I wasn't born yet. Is there a point here?

so you're just being an idiot then.

[Whythink]

Yes. The OP tries to make the argument that it doesn't matter what your personal history is / was, what's important is your ethnicity. That alone makes you guilty of the past sins of some unrelated persons who share some vague resemblance to you. Thus, all Whites are guilty of the sins of slavery and all Blacks victims, regardless of whether your ancestors participated in some way or not. Even worse, it absolves Blacks of being slave owners, which some were.

The whole thing smacks of a shallow, childish, exercise in mental gymnastics that defies all logic. But then again, that pretty much defines about 99% of Leftist thinking.

That is not what the OP argues.

I really just see some parallels between Germany dealing with the sins of the Holocaust and the US dealing with the sins of Slavery.

As a result of reconstruction failing, we, as a country (not race/ethnicity) never had that reckoning. Never truly healed those wounds.

100 years after slavery ended the United States did end segregation and enforcement Civil Rights for all Americans. However, that 100 years included celebrating the Confederacy and its leaders. The very people that fought to maintain slavery and fought against the US.

In Germany, the opposite happened. Partially because of pressure by the US. They actually have laws against celebrating Nazis or creating memorials for Nazi leaders.

This isn't about race it is about how a country failed to reckon with the sins of slavery for 100 years. Then, when the reckoning happened, statues remained and the argument quickly becomes "I am not guilty".

True, I am not guilty, but this country is/was. If the country struggles to denounce those who fought to maintain slavery how can the ancestors of those who were enslaved feel?

Again, maybe none of it matters. I just found it an interesting comparison. I don't think politics plays a role.

The story of Germany the leader breaking down was powerful. He wasn't guilty but felt guilty for Germany, not because of race or ethnicity.

If we can celebrate the glories of the past that we didn't contribute to why can't we have guilt about the failures? It doesn't have to be about race,it can be about being an American.

No???

Sorry for the long response. This is really difficult to explain on this forum. Especially with the assumptions about me based on previous posts. Yes, I am more liberal than conservative. I don't believe that had anything to do with my thoughts after reading the story.

[PostmodernProphet]

I found this to be very powerful to me. Personally, this is a great example of how to move forward. I just hope it isn't too late. Unfortunately, the backlash to this thought process will be strong. It will be seen as divisive and a sign of weakness.

Let's Hope our "More Perfect Union" continues to be attainable. Those ideals truly make this the greatest country.

so union is formed by creating a massive divide between races?.........it would appear that union actually exists before children are told there are differences.....

“He still has no idea why people care so much,” Rosebush said. “He wanted to look like Reddy … now he thinks they look the same.”

https://www.today.com/parents/boy-wa...eacher-t108795

[Into the Night]

Yes. The OP tries to make the argument that it doesn't matter what your personal history is / was, what's important is your ethnicity. That alone makes you guilty of the past sins of some unrelated persons who share some vague resemblance to you. Thus, all Whites are guilty of the sins of slavery and all Blacks victims, regardless of whether your ancestors participated in some way or not. Even worse, it absolves Blacks of being slave owners, which some were.

The whole thing smacks of a shallow, childish, exercise in mental gymnastics that defies all logic. But then again, that pretty much defines about 99% of Leftist thinking.

The OP is racist and bigoted. I already pointed that out. Both racism and bigotry are compositional error fallacies, so yes...they defy logic. A fallacy is an error in logic, similar to a math error. Logic is a closed functional system just like mathematics.

[Into the Night]

That is not what the OP argues.

I really just see some parallels between Germany dealing with the sins of the Holocaust and the US dealing with the sins of Slavery.

As a result of reconstruction failing, we, as a country (not race/ethnicity) never had that reckoning. Never truly healed those wounds.

100 years after slavery ended the United States did end segregation and enforcement Civil Rights for all Americans. However, that 100 years included celebrating the Confederacy and its leaders. The very people that fought to maintain slavery and fought against the US.

In Germany, the opposite happened. Partially because of pressure by the US. They actually have laws against celebrating Nazis or creating memorials for Nazi leaders.

This isn't about race it is about how a country failed to reckon with the sins of slavery for 100 years. Then, when the reckoning happened, statues remained and the argument quickly becomes "I am not guilty".

True, I am not guilty, but this country is/was. If the country struggles to denounce those who fought to maintain slavery how can the ancestors of those who were enslaved feel?

Again, maybe none of it matters. I just found it an interesting comparison. I don't think politics plays a role.

The story of Germany the leader breaking down was powerful. He wasn't guilty but felt guilty for Germany, not because of race or ethnicity.

If we can celebrate the glories of the past that we didn't contribute to why can't we have guilt about the failures? It doesn't have to be about race,it can be about being an American.

No???

Sorry for the long response. This is really difficult to explain on this forum. Especially with the assumptions about me based on previous posts. Yes, I am more liberal than conservative. I don't believe that had anything to do with my thoughts after reading the story.

Paradox. You can't argue both sides of a paradox, dude. It's irrational.

[Whythink]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...th-...-96/ar-AALZy7i

[Into the Night]

What "paying for"?

Acknowledging and respecting that history is not paying for.

You do not respect history. Your only goal is to continue to be racist.

Putting up monuments that honor those enslaved instead of the slaveholders and successionists is not paying for.

Requiring statues to be taken down IS paying for. Who are YOU to decide what someone else wants to put up a statue for?? Racism. Bigotry.

Respecting that this horrific history has an impact on our culture today isn't paying for.

YOU are the only one trying to keep slavery alive right now, vicariously. Racism. Bigotry.

No, he obviously wasn't talking directly about slavery. However, the comparison is the US after slavery vs Germany after the Holocaust.

No comparison, other than that both are the result of socialism. Germany didn't have slaves.

Are the 2 countries at different places regarding their ultimate sin because of how they processed what they did?

Presentism fallacy. At the time, slavery in the United States wasn't a sin. It was legal. Deal with it.

The US followed slavery with 60 + years of Jim Crow. Germany followed the Holocaust with a leader in tears.

Racism. Bigotry.

There is no paying for. Just a lack of denial and a little empathy.

You can't go back in time to fix any of it. Deal with it.

Quoting Plato only shows your own ignorance and where you are coming from...fascism. Socialism.

Plato argued for the kind of hell you say you are condemning. Yet YOU are trying to keep the past alive. For what? YOU want to tear down statues and monuments that others put up. Who are YOU to dictate anything to anyone?

Bigotry. Racism. Get a life.