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Thread: Original Sin?

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    Default Original Sin?

    Judaism teaches that human beings are not basically sinful. We come into the world neither carrying the burden of sin committed by our ancestors nor tainted by it. Rather, sin, chet, is the result of our human inclinations, the yetzer, which must be properly channeled.


    The term “original sin” is unknown to the Jewish Scriptures, and the christian teachings on this doctrine are antithetical to the core principles of the Torah and its prophets.

    An extraordinary sermon delivered by Moses in the last days of his life, the prophet stands before the entire nation and condemns the notion that man’s condition is utterly hopeless. Throughout this uplifting exhortation, Moses declared that it is man alone who can and must merit his own salvation. Moreover, as he unhesitatingly speaks in the name of God, the lawgiver excoriates the notion that obedience to the Almighty is “too difficult or far off.” According, he declared to the children of Israel that righteousness has been placed within their reach. The thirtieth chapter of Deuteronomy discusses this matter extensively, and its verses read as though the Torah is bracing the Jewish people for the Christian doctrines that would confront them in the centuries to come. As the last Book of the Pentateuch draws to a close, Moses admonishes his young nation not to question their capacity to remain faithful to the mitzvoth of the Torah:

    …if you will hearken to the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law; if you turn unto the Lord thy God with all your heart and with all your soul; for this commandment which I command you this day is not too hard for you neither is it too far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, “Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, and make us hear it, that we may do it?” Neither is it beyond the sea that you should say: “Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it that we may do it?” The word is very near to you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

    (Deuteronomy 30:10-14)


    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    Judaism teaches that human beings are not basically sinful. We come into the world neither carrying the burden of sin committed by our ancestors nor tainted by it. Rather, sin, chet, is the result of our human inclinations, the yetzer, which must be properly channeled.


    The term “original sin” is unknown to the Jewish Scriptures, and the christian teachings on this doctrine are antithetical to the core principles of the Torah and its prophets.

    An extraordinary sermon delivered by Moses in the last days of his life, the prophet stands before the entire nation and condemns the notion that man’s condition is utterly hopeless. Throughout this uplifting exhortation, Moses declared that it is man alone who can and must merit his own salvation. Moreover, as he unhesitatingly speaks in the name of God, the lawgiver excoriates the notion that obedience to the Almighty is “too difficult or far off.” According, he declared to the children of Israel that righteousness has been placed within their reach. The thirtieth chapter of Deuteronomy discusses this matter extensively, and its verses read as though the Torah is bracing the Jewish people for the Christian doctrines that would confront them in the centuries to come. As the last Book of the Pentateuch draws to a close, Moses admonishes his young nation not to question their capacity to remain faithful to the mitzvoth of the Torah:

    …if you will hearken to the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law; if you turn unto the Lord thy God with all your heart and with all your soul; for this commandment which I command you this day is not too hard for you neither is it too far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, “Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, and make us hear it, that we may do it?” Neither is it beyond the sea that you should say: “Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it that we may do it?” The word is very near to you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.

    (Deuteronomy 30:10-14)



    Original Sin is one of the worst doctrines of Christianity.

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    This always reminds me of sex. If 'sex' is a sin ... fuck that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    This always reminds me of sex. If 'sex' is a sin ... fuck that!
    Sound theology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Sound theology.
    Yeah. Kind of one of the Prime Directives. (if you want the Species to survive)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Yeah. Kind of one of the Prime Directives. (if you want the Species to survive)
    Catholic priests are not supposed to get married. But it is fine for them to rape young boys.

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    @post 1

    I guess I am not as optimistic about human nature as the Jewish scholars.

    "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. And even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained. And even in the best of all hearts, there remains ... an unuprooted small corner of evil.

    Since then I have come to understand the truth of all the religions of the world: They struggle with the evil inside a human being (inside every human being). It is impossible to expel evil from the world in its entirety, but it is possible to constrict it within within each person.

    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    @post 1

    I guess I am not as optimistic about human nature as the Jewish scholars.
    Human life is neither good nor bad. A major mistake by Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    Human life is neither good nor bad. A major mistake by Christianity.
    Not just Christianity.

    The concept of Samsara in Buddhism and Hinduism is premised on a type of punishment for living the unethical and unenlightened life.


    Probably what Solzhenitsyn was getting at: religion is supposed to be an attempt to restrict evil in the human heart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    Not just Christianity.

    The concept of Samsara in Buddhism and Hinduism is premised on a type of punishment for living the unethical and unenlightened life.


    Probably what Solzhenitsyn was getting at.

    There is more than one school of Buddhism. Zen Buddhism makes no claim about basic goodness or evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    @post 1

    I guess I am not as optimistic about human nature as the Jewish scholars.
    I support evolutionary sciences and comparisons to the natural world.

    But there is an unbridled violence in humans not found in the animal world. Animals kill for food or to advantage the propagation of their genes.

    There is no rational or evolutionary biological explanation for the holocaust, the gulag archipelago, the Rwandan genocide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    I support evolutionary sciences and comparisons to the natural world.

    But there is an unbridled violence in humans not found in the animal world. Animals kill for food or to advantage the propagation of their genes.

    There is no rational or evolutionary biological explanation for the holocaust, the gulag archipelago, the Rwandan genocide.
    Ever watch a cat play with a dead bird? It is part of nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BidenPresident View Post
    There is more than one school of Buddhism. Zen Buddhism makes no claim about basic goodness or evil.
    That is why I specifically also used the word unenlightened; not all Asian traditions can be expected to use the same lexicon as western Christianity.

    Regardless, mainstream Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism all view the individual as flawed, unenlightened, and below an ideal state. In all these traditions, an immoral, unethical, unenlightened life will have adverse consequences,. The very concept of samsara is premised on it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    not all Asian traditions can be expected to use the same lexicon as western Christianity.
    Sorry, I did not understand this comment.

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    it's not original sin as in "the first sin".....its original sin as in "due to our origin"......we are sinful because we are human beings, not because of what Adam and Eve did......
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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