What if Western civilization never got rid of slavery?

[T. A. Gardner]

Well, it wouldn't be civilisation. The British Empire put a stop to slavery because it wasn't in fact a British institution (William the Bastard/Conqueror got rid of it to increase his tax take and it died out) and because it was not only the great Liberal cause from the late Eighteenth Century but because it gave the fleet a good excuse to stop foreign ships that might be slavers.

It'd still be civilization, just with slavery. Slavery died out because of a combination of religious morals rising in Europe and Western culture and technology rendering it inefficient. Without the moral portion it would likely have remained a part of society just as it does in many parts of the world today.

[Cypress]

If you are in a car more than 30 minutes a day, I highly recommend audio books. A CD can be checked out from your local library. If they don't have it, the inter-library system can put it on order for you. I ordered a bunch and ripped them to MP3 files then burned an entire book onto one CD.

In 2008 I was driving about 5 hours a week to night welding classes for a year and a quarter. I could go through an entire book, unabridged, in about 8-10 hours.

McCullough's book was just one of them. Being 2008, I also listened to Obama's "The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream". A history book I particularly enjoyed was Richard Zacks "The Pirate Coast: Thomas Jefferson, the First Marines, and the Secret Mission of 1805".

I can respect a real history buff.

I walk about an hour a day, and I listen to audio downloads of books and lectures.

It really beats listening to Stairway to Heaven for the five billionth time!

[Doc Dutch]

I can respect a real history buff.

I walk about an hour a day, and I listen to audio downloads of books and lectures.

It really beats listening to Stairway to Heaven for the five billionth time!

I listen to history podcasts on my phone/bluetooth headset when mowing. Sometimes when working outside on a speaker. I don't like working with a headset on since I can't hear others approaching so I use a bluetooth speaker. If moving around a lot, I can't always hear a story but can continue to enjoy music.

[Doc Dutch]

I can respect a real history buff....

PS, You might enjoy the Pirate Coast book. Along with other historical events (eg, the Battle of Midway) it show how blind luck and quick thinking people can turn the tide of an event.

The famed Marine attack on "the shores of Tripoli" was a lot closer thing than most people believe.

Not exactly related, but this is one of my favorite scenes from "the Wind and the Lion", the 3 minute clip is shown in Marine training.

[Doc Dutch]

I can respect a real history buff....

PPS. Oops, this goes with it:

[Cypress]

PS, You might enjoy the Pirate Coast book. Along with other historical events (eg, the Battle of Midway) it show how blind luck and quick thinking people can turn the tide of an event.

The famed Marine attack on "the shores of Tripoli" was a lot closer thing than most people believe.

Not exactly related, but this is one of my favorite scenes from "the Wind and the Lion", the 3 minute clip is shown in Marine training.

I appreciate the recommendations

[Iolo/Penderyn]

It'd still be civilization, just with slavery. Slavery died out because of a combination of religious morals rising in Europe and Western culture and technology rendering it inefficient. Without the moral portion it would likely have remained a part of society just as it does in many parts of the world today.

Depends what you mean by civilisation, I suppose. The West Africa Squadron was hunting down slave ships from 1803 or thereabouts, and the pressures against the trade - and against slavery itself - were largely religious. Jane Austen disliked Wilberforce because he was one of the Evangelical 'saints' while the Quakers started working against it in the 'States (and let me put in a word here for the Brontes' father, an Anglican curate: one theory about Heathcliffe is that he was 'black') Slavery was, at any time, difficult to reconcile with any kind of Christianity, however much some (Paul, for instance) wanted to kow-tow to the Imperial authorities.

[Bill]

Depends what you mean by civilisation, I suppose. The West Africa Squadron was hunting down slave ships from 1803 or thereabouts, and the pressures against the trade - and against slavery itself - were largely religious. Jane Austen disliked Wilberforce because he was one of the Evangelical 'saints' while the Quakers started working against it in the 'States (and let me put in a word here for the Brontes' father, an Anglican curate: one theory about Heathcliffe is that he was 'black') Slavery was, at any time, difficult to reconcile with any kind of Christianity, however much some (Paul, for instance) wanted to kow-tow to the Imperial authorities.

Some excellent points, thanks for bringing them out.........hats-off-salute-smiley-emoticon.gif

John Wesley, via Wilberforce got the ball rolling-NOTE: It wasn't the west, it was Britain-UK-Not Spain, Portugal, France, Italy etc...

Oddly enough Wesleyans= Methodism~ Methodism in the USA split on the issue, thus we have southern Methodist, those supporting the south, eventhough their founder was adamantly opposed to slavery