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Thread: 'White-Centering Latinxs'

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    Default 'White-Centering Latinxs'

    Living in the Bay Area I feel like I get exposed to quite a bit. This is a new one to me (Latinx I'm familiar with, the white-centering latinx i'm not). This is from a WaPo op-ed two days ago. Not that we haven't always talked about racial issues but post George Floyd it's really picked up. The various dynamics involved in this one I'll admit I slightly understand but don't fully.

    Any idea if the phrase is equivalent to an Uncle Tom or more towards someone who has assimilated (or both)? As we discuss CRT and our racial history the story of America has been people come here and most assimilate. Today there seems to be some push back to that because assimilating means join a white supremacy dominated culture. A lot going on.



    Opinion: ‘In the Heights’ is just more of the same whitewashed Hollywood


    Julissa Contreras is a Dominican writer, poet, actor and creator of the “Ladies Who Bronché” podcast. Dash Harris Machado is co-founder of AfroLatino Travel, producer and facilitator of the “Radio Caña Negra” podcast and producer of “NEGRO: A Docu-series About Latinx Identity.”

    The recent controversy surrounding “In the Heights,” the big-budget film based on the musical created by Lin-Manuel Miranda, came as no surprise for Black Latin American and Caribbean people. With its White and light-skinned leading roles, the film became part of a long tradition in the Americas of Black erasure.

    When moviegoers and journalists, including the Root’s Felice León, started highlighting the lack of Black leading cast members in the film, many prominent figures rushed to defend it. “We shouldn’t burden Lin-Manuel with the responsibility of representing every Latino,” commentator Ana Navarro said. “You can never do right, it seems,” actress Rita Moreno said in defense of Miranda. “This is the man who literally has brought Latino-ness and Puerto Rican-ness to America.” Both accounts are inaccurate.

    The problem is believing that “Latino-ness” presents a worthy “alternative” to U.S. whiteness, when it is simply White hegemony by another name. What Navarro and Moreno seemed to be telling us is a version of what Black folks everywhere have had to endure for a long time: “Just shut up and be grateful.” But all the triumphalist talk about “representation” crumbles when you point out how all the film leads, picked to represent a heavily Afro-Dominican community, just coincidentally and conveniently happened to pass the “brown paper bag test.”

    Black Latin American and Caribbean people are very familiar with this form of discrimination. At the core of the lip service is a continued adherence to anti-Black practices. We live parallel realities, as most racialized people in White societies do. But we should continue challenging the systematic decisions that make predominantly afrodescendant communities more white-washed fodder for white-centering Latinxs.

    Non-Black Latinxs constantly complain about being underrepresented. But one could simply tune in to any of the Latinx media networks that overrepresent White actors to see the reality. You won’t see many Black Latinxs on those networks. They prefer us out of sight, our stories invisibilized, our narratives minimized. Erasure does not exist in a vacuum, it is part of the larger project of White hegemony and domination, maintained through racism, colorism and classism. The ruling “Latino” elite is predominantly White and mestizo, here in the United States and in the Americas.

    Black Latinxs are fighting discrimination that dates to the colonial “casta” system, which placed African and Indigenous peoples at the bottom and Iberian colonizers and their children at the pinnacle — all of whom have retained social, economic and political power in the region for and among themselves.

    The issue is not the expectation that films must represent all Latin American experiences. The issue is dishonesty.

    Washington Heights is home to a population of mostly dark-skinned Black Dominicans. “In the Heights” does make an effort to include Dominican cultural staples while still honoring the diversity that has always shaped the community, but it does so in the palest ways possible, prioritizing the palette of those who make up the minority of the neighborhood’s demographics: White and light-skinned Latinxs who use their access to Spanish, as a first or second language, as a distancing mechanism from their Whiteness.


    The true musical rhythm of Washington Heights is not playful salsa rhythms and a quirky “Hamilton”-esque hip-hop, which trivializes U.S. enslavement and White power. The true rhythm is deep dembow, trap, bachata, merengue clásico mix — genres that honor the Black culture at the center of the Dominican experience. As actress and playwright Guadalís Del Carmen, who grew up in Chicago but found a real home in the Heights, puts it: “It wasn’t until I moved there that I stopped feeling like a walking paradox.”

    Sure, musical theater has its own style, but this film does more than remix sounds — it remixes reality. In the original Broadway production, Lin highlights the dynamics of anti-Blackness as it relates to Nina’s father taking issue with her Black boyfriend. Why was the decision made to remove that incredibly relevant thread? It was a clear reminder of how Hollywood continues to remove nuanced humanization to replace it for easy gimmicks.

    In many ways Hollywood has existed to uphold coloniality and capitalist frameworks integral to its success. What we need now is truth. Miranda issued an apology, but he must go deeper. He can either admit that he’s not really trying to tell groundbreaking stories and cares only about his own impact and legacy, or he can confront that he actively contributes to the same lack of representation he says he has felt his whole life. Why highlight a Black Latinx population if your interpretation needed to erase a large portion of the Blackness to tell it?


    Miranda and Moreno, who tried to walk back her initial statements, are still operating within their industry’s anti-Black standards. It’s clear that upholding that standard of harm takes precedence over authentic, humanizing storytelling. Why do we continue to submit ourselves to this low standard of storytelling and then expect the voices marginalized in the work to show up as grateful consumers?

    “In the Heights” picks and chooses mythical “universal” Latino experiences over letting the truth stand in its entirety. The deprioritization of lived and racialized experiences in favor of a nonexistent mono-cultural “Latinidad” has no function beyond fantasy. How can we honor those who came before us and risked everything to exist despite the challenge of erasure? Are we willing to let them be sold out so that White Latinxs can use our keys to open their own doors? No. We must hold people such as Miranda accountable for writing us out of our own story. There is absolutely no community without accountability.

    We afrodescendants have always forged our own paths that respond and correspond to our needs. Organizations such as Mujeres Negras RD, AfroResistance, Barrio Alante, Proyecto AfroLatin@, Bx (Re)Birth and Progress, Radio Caña Negra, AfroLatino Travel, Reconoci.do all center AfroLatinos on our terms and without the shallow fanfare. Divesting from the system that synchronously extracts our talents and creations and demands our silence and absence becomes ever more imperative. Latinidad and all of its oppressive, disingenuous trappings is nearing its final curtain call.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini....co/eVn5GatBQf

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Living in the Bay Area I feel like I get exposed to quite a bit. This is a new one to me (Latinx I'm familiar with, the white-centering latinx i'm not). This is from a WaPo op-ed two days ago. Not that we haven't always talked about racial issues but post George Floyd it's really picked up. The various dynamics involved in this one I'll admit I slightly understand but don't fully.

    Any idea if the phrase is equivalent to an Uncle Tom or more towards someone who has assimilated (or both)? As we discuss CRT and our racial history the story of America has been people come here and most assimilate. Today there seems to be some push back to that because assimilating means join a white supremacy dominated culture. A lot going on.



    Opinion: ‘In the Heights’ is just more of the same whitewashed Hollywood


    Julissa Contreras is a Dominican writer, poet, actor and creator of the “Ladies Who Bronché” podcast. Dash Harris Machado is co-founder of AfroLatino Travel, producer and facilitator of the “Radio Caña Negra” podcast and producer of “NEGRO: A Docu-series About Latinx Identity.”

    The recent controversy surrounding “In the Heights,” the big-budget film based on the musical created by Lin-Manuel Miranda, came as no surprise for Black Latin American and Caribbean people. With its White and light-skinned leading roles, the film became part of a long tradition in the Americas of Black erasure.

    When moviegoers and journalists, including the Root’s Felice León, started highlighting the lack of Black leading cast members in the film, many prominent figures rushed to defend it. “We shouldn’t burden Lin-Manuel with the responsibility of representing every Latino,” commentator Ana Navarro said. “You can never do right, it seems,” actress Rita Moreno said in defense of Miranda. “This is the man who literally has brought Latino-ness and Puerto Rican-ness to America.” Both accounts are inaccurate.

    The problem is believing that “Latino-ness” presents a worthy “alternative” to U.S. whiteness, when it is simply White hegemony by another name. What Navarro and Moreno seemed to be telling us is a version of what Black folks everywhere have had to endure for a long time: “Just shut up and be grateful.” But all the triumphalist talk about “representation” crumbles when you point out how all the film leads, picked to represent a heavily Afro-Dominican community, just coincidentally and conveniently happened to pass the “brown paper bag test.”

    Black Latin American and Caribbean people are very familiar with this form of discrimination. At the core of the lip service is a continued adherence to anti-Black practices. We live parallel realities, as most racialized people in White societies do. But we should continue challenging the systematic decisions that make predominantly afrodescendant communities more white-washed fodder for white-centering Latinxs.

    Non-Black Latinxs constantly complain about being underrepresented. But one could simply tune in to any of the Latinx media networks that overrepresent White actors to see the reality. You won’t see many Black Latinxs on those networks. They prefer us out of sight, our stories invisibilized, our narratives minimized. Erasure does not exist in a vacuum, it is part of the larger project of White hegemony and domination, maintained through racism, colorism and classism. The ruling “Latino” elite is predominantly White and mestizo, here in the United States and in the Americas.

    Black Latinxs are fighting discrimination that dates to the colonial “casta” system, which placed African and Indigenous peoples at the bottom and Iberian colonizers and their children at the pinnacle — all of whom have retained social, economic and political power in the region for and among themselves.

    The issue is not the expectation that films must represent all Latin American experiences. The issue is dishonesty.

    Washington Heights is home to a population of mostly dark-skinned Black Dominicans. “In the Heights” does make an effort to include Dominican cultural staples while still honoring the diversity that has always shaped the community, but it does so in the palest ways possible, prioritizing the palette of those who make up the minority of the neighborhood’s demographics: White and light-skinned Latinxs who use their access to Spanish, as a first or second language, as a distancing mechanism from their Whiteness.


    The true musical rhythm of Washington Heights is not playful salsa rhythms and a quirky “Hamilton”-esque hip-hop, which trivializes U.S. enslavement and White power. The true rhythm is deep dembow, trap, bachata, merengue clásico mix — genres that honor the Black culture at the center of the Dominican experience. As actress and playwright Guadalís Del Carmen, who grew up in Chicago but found a real home in the Heights, puts it: “It wasn’t until I moved there that I stopped feeling like a walking paradox.”

    Sure, musical theater has its own style, but this film does more than remix sounds — it remixes reality. In the original Broadway production, Lin highlights the dynamics of anti-Blackness as it relates to Nina’s father taking issue with her Black boyfriend. Why was the decision made to remove that incredibly relevant thread? It was a clear reminder of how Hollywood continues to remove nuanced humanization to replace it for easy gimmicks.

    In many ways Hollywood has existed to uphold coloniality and capitalist frameworks integral to its success. What we need now is truth. Miranda issued an apology, but he must go deeper. He can either admit that he’s not really trying to tell groundbreaking stories and cares only about his own impact and legacy, or he can confront that he actively contributes to the same lack of representation he says he has felt his whole life. Why highlight a Black Latinx population if your interpretation needed to erase a large portion of the Blackness to tell it?


    Miranda and Moreno, who tried to walk back her initial statements, are still operating within their industry’s anti-Black standards. It’s clear that upholding that standard of harm takes precedence over authentic, humanizing storytelling. Why do we continue to submit ourselves to this low standard of storytelling and then expect the voices marginalized in the work to show up as grateful consumers?

    “In the Heights” picks and chooses mythical “universal” Latino experiences over letting the truth stand in its entirety. The deprioritization of lived and racialized experiences in favor of a nonexistent mono-cultural “Latinidad” has no function beyond fantasy. How can we honor those who came before us and risked everything to exist despite the challenge of erasure? Are we willing to let them be sold out so that White Latinxs can use our keys to open their own doors? No. We must hold people such as Miranda accountable for writing us out of our own story. There is absolutely no community without accountability.

    We afrodescendants have always forged our own paths that respond and correspond to our needs. Organizations such as Mujeres Negras RD, AfroResistance, Barrio Alante, Proyecto AfroLatin@, Bx (Re)Birth and Progress, Radio Caña Negra, AfroLatino Travel, Reconoci.do all center AfroLatinos on our terms and without the shallow fanfare. Divesting from the system that synchronously extracts our talents and creations and demands our silence and absence becomes ever more imperative. Latinidad and all of its oppressive, disingenuous trappings is nearing its final curtain call.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini....co/eVn5GatBQf
    Not sure what you are saying or asking, or perhaps you are just surprised @ the complexity, nuances & perhaps underlying histories in other cultures/nationalities etc..
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Most Hispanics identify as white.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=most...4dUDCAk&uact=5

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    As a rookie Francisco Garcia, from the Dominican Republic played for the Sac Kings. Great guy & decent player when not injured..

    I recall when he first got to Sacto he stated he never realized he was black until he came here..
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Not sure what you are saying or asking, or perhaps you are just surprised @ the complexity, nuances & perhaps underlying histories in other cultures/nationalities etc..
    I'm well aware there is lots of nuance when it comes to race and among people of the same ethnicity. As mentioned the white centering Latinx is new to me and I'd like to get a better understanding (a fair response might be don't come here to find that). I'm smart enough to know I don't know everything and I believe knowledge is power. Maybe I'll learn something here or maybe not. I'm giving it a shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post

    As a rookie Francisco Garcia, from the Dominican Republic played for the Sac Kings. Great guy & decent player when not injured..

    I recall when he first got to Sacto he stated he never realized he was black until he came here..
    I remember him...

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    It was one opinion article by contributing authors that generated a lot of attention not because what it said but rather because it criticized Lin Manuel Miranda, who has up until now only been recognized for his brilliance. Ironic finding fault over perceived racism when he just wrote, acted, and directed a successful theatrical production featuring Black and Latino actors as the Founding Fathers, which I would highly recommend if you haven’t seen it

    We view assimilation differently, but I believe the focus of the opinion piece was that the play featured only light skinned Latinos and thereby discriminated against others with African backgrounds. Point being, how are you going to depict life in that community by leaving out a large segment

    Momentary discussion point, but nothing more, here today, gone tomorrow

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    It was one opinion article by contributing authors that generated a lot of attention not because what it said but rather because it criticized Lin Manuel Miranda, who has up until now only been recognized for his brilliance. Ironic finding fault over perceived racism when he just wrote, acted, and directed a successful theatrical production featuring Black and Latino actors as the Founding Fathers, which I would highly recommend if you haven’t seen it

    We view assimilation differently, but I believe the focus of the opinion piece was that the play featured only light skinned Latinos and thereby discriminated against others with African backgrounds. Point being, how are you going to depict life in that community by leaving out a large segment

    Momentary discussion point, but nothing more, here today, gone tomorrow
    I did see it getting a lot of attention from the blue check mark brigade (which is how I came across it) and of course it's in a national publication. People are entitled to different opinions of course and I'm aware because a major paper publishes something it doesn't mean large numbers of people necessarily agree with it. I'm also aware that on the surface people may belong to a group but within that group there are differing viewpoints and dynamics as the article shows.

    But this topic of assimilation and how certain people view themselves and others vis a vis white people and American (white) culture isn't going away.
    Last edited by cawacko; 06-23-2021 at 02:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post

    But this topic of assimilation and how certain people view themselves and others vis a vis white people and American (white) culture isn't going away.
    Over the years we have had & seen countless threads dealing w/ this & related issues but few, if any, related to this being somehow unique to the USA, the west or Americas..

    They don't play the same way in China? Malaysia? Iran? Israel? India?? Ppl are fucked up in lots of ways & I have always believed they will find countless ways to divide themselves..
    "There is no question former President Trump bears moral responsibility. His supporters stormed the Capitol because of the unhinged falsehoods he shouted into the world’s largest megaphone," McConnell wrote. "His behavior during and after the chaos was also unconscionable, from attacking Vice President Mike Pence during the riot to praising the criminals after it ended."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Over the years we have had & seen countless threads dealing w/ this & related issues but few, if any, related to this being somehow unique to the USA, the west or Americas..

    They don't play the same way in China? Malaysia? Iran? Israel? India?? Ppl are fucked up in lots of ways & I have always believed they will find countless ways to divide themselves..
    I don't know if happened to follow the story of Allison Collins. She's the black woman on the SF Board of Education that made national headlines recently when her 2016 tweets were unearthed where she said Asians used white supremacist thinking to assimilate and get ahead. I like to read black writers and it gets discussed quite a bit about who is defined as 'authentically black' and usually it's someone who wouldn't assimilate into thinking/behavior of the dominate white culture. And in this story you have white-centering Latnix.

    I wish I was more knowledgeable and could speak to internal struggles of the countries you listed. But within America this is going to be an ongoing topic and discussion and after the killing of George Floyd it's only going to accelerate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    I'm well aware there is lots of nuance when it comes to race and among people of the same ethnicity. As mentioned the white centering Latinx is new to me and I'd like to get a better understanding (a fair response might be don't come here to find that). I'm smart enough to know I don't know everything and I believe knowledge is power. Maybe I'll learn something here or maybe not. I'm giving it a shot.
    or maybe you shouldnt waste you time with such useless racialism

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    Quote Originally Posted by dukkha View Post
    or maybe you shouldnt waste you time with such useless racialism
    Definitely something to be said for that. In fact it's an excellent idea. But at least for me as I look at Facebook or the people I follow on Twitter there's no getting away from it. It's front and center in our county's cultural and political discussions. But you are not wrong
    Last edited by cawacko; 06-23-2021 at 06:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    I'm well aware there is lots of nuance when it comes to race and among people of the same ethnicity. As mentioned the white centering Latinx is new to me and I'd like to get a better understanding (a fair response might be don't come here to find that). I'm smart enough to know I don't know everything and I believe knowledge is power. Maybe I'll learn something here or maybe not. I'm giving it a shot.
    That’s where we differ lol.

    There are some things I simply refuse to clutter my mind with. White centering Latinx, the 23 genders, gender pronouns and a growing amount of the race-obsessed stuff stays outside my cranium. Maybe because I instantly recognize so much of it as sheer bullocks.

    I instantly recognize the race obsession as an unhealthy obsession; and as a result, I don’t need to explore it to know absolutely no good will come of it. In fact, it already has race relations running in reverse.
    Coup has started. First of many steps. Impeachment will follow ultimately~WB attorney Mark Zaid, January 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Omar View Post
    That’s where we differ lol.

    There are some things I simply refuse to clutter my mind with. White centering Latinx, the 23 genders, gender pronouns and a growing amount of the race-obsessed stuff stays outside my cranium. Maybe because I instantly recognize so much of it as sheer bullocks.

    I instantly recognize the race obsession as an unhealthy obsession; and as a result, I don’t need to explore it to know absolutely no good will come of it. In fact, it already has race relations running in reverse.
    I hear you. The reality is living in the Bay Area this stuff is front and center on a regular basis. On top of that I have a Pastor who talks about this on almost a daily basis. And having a young kid this is the world she's growing up in so I keep myself aware. It's a balancing act for sure.

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