What is philosophy? Philosophy is an applied science.

[goat]

Where did Plato talk about "true science?"

The Republic, I can't remember which chapter. Plato shows why man-made laws should come from reason instead of religion. Plato believes reason is the only/best science. It starts to make sense once you understand precognition, the ability to do the calculations in your mind to make an educated guess. Plato didn't realize that engineers and architects also see things in their mind before they build it.

[Cypress]

The translation of Plato used the words 'true science'. Plato's disdain for architecture and engineering gave me a negative view of Plato until I got to The Apology. Confronting human nature is an art in itself. Betrayal became the utmost of sins with an honest look at human behavior. A dialogue written some 2400 years ago.

"Science" is derived from a Latin word, and has only been used since the 18th century to represent the kind of experimental inductive logic Francis Bacon advocated at the dawn of the scientific age.

Plato did not speak Latin and did not use the word science.

It is obviously an artifact of bad translation, and the only reason I nitpick it is because my cousin is a professional interpreter and translator.

The Greeks were not doing experimental science.

Plato would written in lexicon appropriate for ancient Greece, aka philosophia and episteme, or other Greek analogs for knowlege and natural philosophy.

[BidenPresident]

The Greeks were not doing experimental science.

Aristotle was. Parts of Animals clearly documents dissecting animals.

[Cypress]

Aristotle was. Parts of Animals clearly documents dissecting animals.

That's true. He was doing a kind of investigation of the natural world that Plato had no interest in.

But also a lot of Aristotle's speculations about the natural world was based on deductive reasoning, rather than experimental induction.

That is how Galileo disproved Aristotelian physics -- Galileo actually did experiments proving the mechanics of Aristotle wrong

[evince]

Love of wisdom


I love that


To me philosophy is a search for truth and reality


You apply all known facts and then look for the impact on humans of our current knowledge and try to understand and convey that impact on what’s best for mankind and the physical world that is our home


It requires a love of mankind and knowledge applied to create a more perfect world

[BidenPresident]

That's true. He was doing a kind of investigation of the natural world that Plato had no interest in.

But also a lot of Aristotle's speculations about the natural world was based on deductive reasoning, rather than experimental induction.

That is how Galileo disproved Aristotelian physics -- Galileo actually did experiments proving the mechanics of Aristotle wrong

Aristotle did not consider math to be the proper method of describing nature.

[evince]

Artists were known to dissect animals and even corpses


So they could represent what they truely look like with that knowledge


Knowing where bone and muscles actually were and how they connected


Even the thickness of skin could help them represent the human form more accurately

[Cypress]

Love of wisdom


I love that


To me philosophy is a search for truth and reality


You apply all known facts and then look for the impact on humans of our current knowledge and try to understand and convey that impact on what’s best for mankind and the physical world that is our home


It requires a love of mankind and knowledge applied to create a more perfect world

If I had to choose an ancient language to learn, it would be Greek not Latin.

The heritage of western civilization goes back to Greek -- religion, literature, philosophy.

I have always appreciated that you are a philosophically-thinking person

[evince]

I trust for the most part the scholars who came after to be honest in their attempts to pass it down to us


But like any other human endeavor read as many human takes as one can to more clearly suss it out


Love of knowledge

[evince]

Plato's Socrates said philosophy is the only true science. This was made in comparison to architecture, engineering, and art.

https://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~jim/irv.pdf


Aristotle’s take

[BidenPresident]

MILLGRAM: Leverage. Aesthetics has been ghettoized. If you look back a couple hundred years, if you look at people who are strong all-around philosophers, they knew they had to have views in aesthetics because they would need those views for something else. Kant had to have views in aesthetics to make sure he’d gotten the first Critique right. Schopenhauer had to have views in aesthetics. Nietzche had to have views in aesthetics. Hume had to have views in aesthetics.

https://conversationswithtyler.com/e...ijah-millgram/

[Cypress]

Aristotle did not consider math to be the proper method of describing nature.

Right, he did not share Plato's reverence for mathematics and geometry.

I think the natural philosophy Aristotle was doing was mostly just observation and deductive speculation.

That is why the physics of Aristotle crumbled into irrelevance almost immediately when the experimental science of Galileo was brought to bear in the investigation of mechanics and motion.

[BidenPresident]

Right, he did not share Plato's reverence for mathematics and geometry.

I think the natural philosophy Aristotle was doing was mostly just observation and deductive speculation.

That is why the physics of Aristotle crumbled into irrelevance almost immediately when the experimental science of Galileo was brought to bear in the investigation of mechanics and motion.

Aristotle did empirical biology. Galileo's physics were all math based. That is the difference from Aristotle.

[goat]

"Science" is derived from a Latin word, and has only been used since the 18th century to represent the kind of experimental inductive logic Francis Bacon advocated at the dawn of the scientific age.

Plato did not speak Latin and did not use the word science.

It is obviously an artifact of bad translation, and the only reason I nitpick it is because my cousin is a professional interpreter and translator.

The Greeks were not doing experimental science.

Plato would written in lexicon appropriate for ancient Greece, aka philosophia and episteme, or other Greek analogs for knowlege and natural philosophy.

Where would we be without english translations? Plato saw reason as a science in the english version of Republic. He somewhat proves it in Apology where he takes a deep dive into human behavior.

The Greeks were pretty good at mathematics and engineering hundreds of years before Plato. My thread on hunter-gatherers shows that humans were engineering more than 12,000 years ago. They didn't call it science even though there's evidence of astronomy.