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Thread: Critical Race Theory

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    I wouldn't teach race at all. Instead, I'd seek to ignore race as much as possible treating every student equally. You can make lessons relatable without using race as the basis. CRT uses racism to teach students to be race conscious. That is, it teaches students to be racist because they make race a central part of their thinking. If students didn't give a shit about race, race wouldn't matter and the problem of racism would diminish.
    Recognizing peoples heritage is not racism

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    This is random but I go back to my Pastor saying we need to dismantle white supremacy. It made me think of goal setting. At work it might I want to achieve a certain title, or a certain productional level or on a team it's we want to reach a certain number of wins. It's something tangible. But there's a lot of abstractness when it comes to defining or determining how we would go about dismantling white supremacy. What all does it entail and what metrics would we use to judge progress?
    Yes, that is pretty vague. I think it is much too broad and nebulous. Trying to identify and make people aware of prejudice can be taught to all groups without blaming it on anyone. There are tests and experiments used in psychology that allow people to explore these issues.

    I had a sketch of people on a subway. It included a black man in a suit, a man in painter's overalls holding a straight razor, and several other people. I showed this picture to my students at the beginning of the semester and told them to study it and pay special attention to the person who had a weapon. About 8-10 weeks later I had them write a description of the person who had the weapon. I got different answers but the most common answer was a black man.

    The point was to show the problems of eyewitness identification in criminal cases. It allowed students to see patterns and problems without using emotion laden terms like white privilege, white supremacy, systemic racism, or other accusatory terms. Black students were as likely to say it was a black man as white students. I think many of those who want CRT taught are seeking revenge or to make people feel bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    Recognizing peoples heritage is not racism
    Agreed, but teaching CRT is not teaching heritage. Heritage and accomplishments are positive contributions. Those are better than a constant stream of atrocities.

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    Hello T. A. Gardner,

    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    I wouldn't teach race at all. Instead, I'd seek to ignore race as much as possible treating every student equally. You can make lessons relatable without using race as the basis. CRT uses racism to teach students to be race conscious. That is, it teaches students to be racist because they make race a central part of their thinking. If students didn't give a shit about race, race wouldn't matter and the problem of racism would diminish.
    = Ignore it and it will just magically go away.

    Pardon me, but I don't think that will work.

    At all.

    Seems like we have tried that already and it has failed.

    But thanks for recognizing there is a problem which hurts us and wanting it solved somehow.
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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    What "argument" are you referring to? My point was simply that we have talked about all this stuff forever. That is not a bad thing, but illustrates that the "we need to have a conversation" proposal has not solved anything and cannot possibly include anything not previously discussed--JPP is a great example. We just keep repeating the same points.
    Life is a circle. It just keeps repeating. Everything we are doing has been done before. But that's no reason to say it is not worth living. This is our time.

    We are having these discussions. Yes, they have been had before, but not by this particular group of people.

    We need to do our thing. This is our time. This is our chance to have these discussions.

    And we get different participants who bring different perspectives.

    This is a repeat, yes, but it is also unique.

    These discussions are worth having.

    The argument I was referring to was:

    " they needed new evils like white privilege to substitute for segregation. "

    THAT.

    That is a BS argument.

    White privilege exists.

    But it's got to be hard to see if you're not black.

    That's how white privilege works. Whites don't see a race problem.

    It's there.
    Last edited by PoliTalker; 06-22-2021 at 08:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    That's how white privilege works. Whites don't see a race problem.

    It's there.
    I think many/most whites do see a race problem. They just disagree about ways to make it better.

    At school we talk about making kids "feel better about themselves." We don't tell an obese person he is a fat slob who eats too much because everybody knows it is counter-productive. Telling a white person he has white privilege or is a race is also counter-productive. Requiring him to admit his privilege before he is able to take part in class discussions (an example from a sociology class) is not what he needs.

    You can show data on income, education, health, and other democratic data to learn about society and use many of the exercises used in psychology and other studies. Those methods are not aggressive enough for some people.

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    It also comes from the practices of those seeking to teach these programs--college classes, consultants offering in-service training to employees, college orientation programs.

    CRT does exactly that---it starts with the premise that white people are racist. There are plenty of people of all races who are prejudiced and discriminate, but there are better methods to improve society than telling people they are the cause of all the problems.

    Nobody who teaches CRT is going to investigate its tenets and conclude they are not valid and nobody who wants CRT taught want them to conclude that.
    I wish you could show me one nonpartisan source that says CRT starts with the premise that white people are racist.

    Because so far, since the right wing has become enthralled with CRT as the latest boogie man, the only people we have heard say it means all whites are racist, are from the right.

    What it looks like to we on the left is that the right is trying once again to redefine something to suit their own narrative.

    We do know that the right has a penchant for building strawmen, and this looks like a monster size strawman from the liberal perspective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    You never heard of CRT prior to six months ago, and you can only parrot what you heard rightwing media personalities say about it
    I doubt that you've heard of John McWhorter either, he is the voice of reason and common sense. Concepts that are peripheral at best to the likes of you and Zippy.


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    .
    Are black parents fed up with Critical Race Theory teaching?

    Race has always been the crown jewel used by Democrats to galvanize Black support. The Democrats constantly and consistently remind Black Americans that race is a barrier to their progress, and that they are the answer to this problem. …

    Critical race theory is the latest iteration of this vicious cycle. Worse, it adds in an element of divisiveness that sets our kids up for failure. Black children will learn to resent white children based on history viewed through a racial lens, and white children will learn to dislike who they are or be resentful of being told their skin color makes them inherently tyrannical.

    Last week, a concerned mother, Keisha King, demolished CRT during a Florida school board meeting, arguing that CRT is racist.

    “Telling my child or any child that they are in a permanent oppressed status in America because they are black is racist, and saying that white people are automatically above me, my children, or any child is racist as well,” King righteously pointed out. “This is not something that we can stand for in our country.”

    https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2021...aching-n398217
    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 06-22-2021 at 06:34 PM.

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    Anybody that tries to deny that CRT is Marxist in origin is either a fool or a liar, as this video goes to great lengths to explain.

    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 06-22-2021 at 11:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Critical Race Theory derives from Critical Legal Theory (invented by Harvard professor Derrick Bell), that came from Critical Theory, and that from Critical Pedagogy. Critical Pedagogy was the invention of Brazilian Communist Paulo Freire. The central tenant of it is that ‘all education is political indoctrination.’ It uses Marxist economic class struggle as its core. See Freire’s book, Pedagogy of the Oppressed (1968) for more on that.

    CRT does the same thing as Critical Pedagogy only with the classes defined by race. In CRT there are racial groups that are oppressed and others that are oppressors. These are defined by cherry picked examples of individuals within those groups and then applied to the group as a whole. Thus, for the CRT advocate, there are individual Whites that are racists by example and that makes all Whites racist as they are deemed an oppressor group. Individual Black racists are ignored because Blacks as a group are deemed oppressed. This division by race and status becomes the basis for indoctrinating students into racial class warfare.

    An example of CRT in action would be using The 1619 Project to teach history from a racial perspective. As history, The 1619 Project has been thoroughly discredited. Historians, including many Leftist ones, have panned it as a work of fiction. The New York Times made a retraction of claims it was historically accurate. Yet, it is used, including in thousands of schools, to teach history as a racial struggle as CRT requires.

    CRT is radical Leftist indoctrination and nothing else. It seeks to turn groups by race against each other to tear down society so it can be reborn into a Marxist utopia.
    And all you have to do is provide the readers with AN EXACT QUOTE THAT STATES IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS from the Critical Race theory that states ‘all education is political indoctrination.’ . If you can't, then your screed is nothing more than another MAGA ideology house of cards that has just been blown down.
    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    I think many/most whites do see a race problem. They just disagree about ways to make it better.

    At school we talk about making kids "feel better about themselves." We don't tell an obese person he is a fat slob who eats too much because everybody knows it is counter-productive. Telling a white person he has white privilege or is a race is also counter-productive. Requiring him to admit his privilege before he is able to take part in class discussions (an example from a sociology class) is not what he needs.

    You can show data on income, education, health, and other democratic data to learn about society and use many of the exercises used in psychology and other studies. Those methods are not aggressive enough for some people.
    The point is not to single people out and tell them uncomfortable things about themselves. The point is to talk about the social dynamics of how the inequality works and is sustained.

    I see two elements of the problem which must each be addressed in different ways.

    The first one is obvious. White supremacy and active racist discrimination. That has to be addressed with law enforcement, and rooted out where it exists within law enforcement. No easy challenge.

    The second one is the subject of CRT. It is the realization that the first element of the problem is not possible unless good people do nothing. When good people fail to act to solve racial inequality, when good people just look the other way and let it continue, then nothing gets fixed.

    CRT is simply the recognition that we as a society have to change somehow to break the cycle which perpetuates the problem.

    If this makes some people uncomfortable because they are too sensitive; or they listen to too much programming designed to get them angry about trying to solve the problem, then something has to change about that dynamic; because doing nothing will not solve the problem.

    Regardless of how people deal with the issue, we have to try to solve it.

    Giving up and putting it off for yet another generation is not the answer.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZappasGuitar View Post
    This nation will NEVER have an honest discussion about Critical Race Theory until the GOP STOPS LYING ABOUT IT...


    Ted Cruz's erroneous definition of Critical Race Theory explains WHITE America

    The Texas Senator is apparently confused about CRT and the KKK.



    At the conservative Faith and Freedom Forum this past week, Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, launched an attack on critical race theory. Such rants have become a staple for Republicans lately, but Cruz set himself apart by asserting that the legal theory was “every bit as racist as the Klansmen in white sheets.”

    Cruz offered no evidence for these claims, because there is none.

    To say this is nonsense feels painfully obvious. The Ku Klux Klan’s ideology began with the premise that racial differences were an obvious biological and scientific fact and that all human activities had to be organized around that fact; critical race theorists take as their starting point the belief that race is a fiction, that it’s an invented concept that has no basis in biology or science.

    The Klan worked to put its racist beliefs into action through Jim Crow laws in the South and immigration restrictions for the nation as a whole; critical race theorists have devoted themselves to identifying the remainders of that racism in the law and rooting it out.

    And, most obviously, the KKK was a terrorist organization responsible for decades of white supremacist violence that included thousands of murders, mutilations and bombings of African Americans and other minorities. The law school professors behind critical race theory are not.

    Despite the vast differences between the Klan and critical race theorists, Cruz twisted himself into knots insisting they were the same by grossly misrepresenting the scholarly field. "Critical race theory says every white person is a racist," the senator asserted. "Critical race theory says America's fundamentally racist and irredeemably racist. Critical race theory seeks to turn us against each other and if someone has a different color skin, seeks to make us hate that person."

    Cruz offered no evidence for these claims, because there is none. Far from arguing that individual white people are all racist, critical race theorists assert that focusing on the actions of individuals is meaningless because racism is more deeply rooted in larger structural and systemic problems.

    Rather than believing America is “irredeemably racist,” critical race theorists have stated that their reckoning with the submerged role of racism in America is a path to redeem the nation and fulfill the promises of emancipation and the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. Critical race theorists also do not seek to turn Americans against each other, but rather to help them understand the actual history of the nation they share as citizens.

    While Cruz’s claim that critical race theorists are “every bit as racist” as Klansmen is laughable, it notably fits into a larger historical pattern in which white southerners asserted that the critics of white supremacy were just as bad — or worse — than the defenders of white supremacy.

    During the civil rights era, segregationist leaders across the South complained that they were being besieged by “extremists on both sides,” by which they meant white supremacist organizations like the Ku Klux Klan and its white-collar counterpart, the White Citizens’ Councils, and civil rights organizations, like the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP)

    In Louisiana, Democratic Governor Russell Long in 1956 blamed racial troubles in his state on “extremists” he saw in both the NAACP, which was seeking enforcement of the Supreme Court’s rulings against school segregation, and the White Citizens’ Councils, which was working furiously to block its implementation. The Louisiana legislature even tried to ban the NAACP, notably using a law originally designed to crack down on the Klan.

    In South Carolina, Judge J. Henry Johnson told a grand jury in 1958 that both sides of the civil rights struggle were to blame for racial turmoil in the region. “The NAACP is just as bad as the KKK,” the segregationist asserted, because he believed both as “violence inciting organizations.” (Cruz might be interested to note that the judge also disparaged Communists, who he said tended to be “first or second generation Americans with names ending in X, or Y, or Z.”)

    This is a tried-and-true line of attack from those who wish to preserve the status quo.

    As government officials like Long and Johnson advanced this false equivalency between civil rights organizations like the NAACP and white supremacist ones like the KKK or White Citizens’ Councils, ordinary white southerners soon drew the same conclusion.

    In 1962, for instance, a letter to the editor of the Knoxville Herald argued that the NAACP and the KKK were in the same class. “Both are extremists,” the correspondent claimed. “Both incite violence. Both have the hate that is not part of the American way of life.”

    Convincing ordinary Americans that the enemies of the Klan were just as bad as the Klan itself was, of course, the entire point. It still is.

    This is a tried-and-true line of attack from those who wish to preserve the status quo, but in this instance it’s especially egregious. Critical race theorists seek to expose the ways in which white supremacists — like Long, the Louisiana state legislature, or Johnson — abused the powers of their offices to embed racist principles and policies in our political and legal systems.

    It’s bad enough that Cruz slanders them. But it’s even worse that he uses the exact same line of argument against them that those segregationists did.

    https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/ted-cr...white-n1271484
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    I gave the answer to that above. It isn't about socioeconomic context, it's about race. CRT divides everyone in society by race and then deems some racial groups oppressors and others oppressed. It's just a twist on the original class struggle in Marx between proletariat and bourgeoise with the same end intention: To create class struggle between groups in society with the end goal being the destruction of that society so that a Communist one can rise in its place.
    Can anyone refute this?
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