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Thread: Critical Race Theory

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Whatever Cruz and other Republicans do has not stopped "honest" discussions of CRT or anything else. Those discussions have been occurring in schools, workplaces, among friends and neighbors, on TV, radio, internet media programs.

    Many of these discussions did not specifically discuss CRT, but it contains nothing not already examined and discussed (just not under that title). It can be summed up in a few sentences and many either accept or reject its premises. And "honest discussion" does not mean repeating it until everybody accepts its premises.
    What people like Cruz do is to perpetuate prejudice.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    “no element of race relations in the US that has not been ……. taught in schools”

    That in itself is debatable. In a nutshell, most, and I am sure even today, learned little of slavery’s actual role in framing of the country, nor understanding it’s portrayal in the Constitution. Usually the three fifth’s compromise is discussed and that is about it, the institution of slavery then fades until the era of Sectionalism, and then understood solely from political implications. Civil War, move onto Reconstruction, and then a jump to the Civil Right’s Era of the 1960’s, its a typical survey approach and all from a white perspective

    None of that helps us understand where we are today two hundred plus years later
    Many courses are designed to teach exactly those things you mention and many instructors choose to include/stress those topics.

    Any additional items you choose to include must exclude others which then results in the criticism of why X,Y,Z is not being taught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Whatever Cruz and other Republicans do has not stopped "honest" discussions of CRT or anything else. Those discussions have been occurring in schools, workplaces, among friends and neighbors, on TV, radio, internet media programs.

    Many of these discussions did not specifically discuss CRT, but it contains nothing not already examined and discussed (just not under that title). It can be summed up in a few sentences and many either accept or reject its premises. And "honest discussion" does not mean repeating it until everybody accepts its premises.
    Again, well said. Now a coach or a boss might pull a player/employee aside and say we need to have honest conversation, your performance sucks. But that's not what this is about. Here an 'honest conversation' means you will hear and agree with what I believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Flash,

    Discussions can lead to great new ideas. Discussions should be continued.

    History repeats itself. Discussions about history are logically going to be redundant. But that is not to say that a new mind which has not been privy to previous discussions might not see it in a different light and thus add an element not previously considered.

    Certainly it makes no sense to think that if everyone were to cease discussing such a serious long standing problem, that it would just go away by itself.
    I clearly said I have no desire to limit discussions, but as an old guy I have heard these discussions many times. Somebody makes a point and one person gives the standard liberal response and another gives the standard conservative response.

    You said you believe/accept most of the tenets of CRT; yet, you also said a theory is a set of unproven assumptions. Why do you believe something that you say is unproven?

    Put a bunch of white people in a room and tell them they are racists and you have already lost whatever you are trying to achieve. And, it makes little sense when CRT tells us there is no such thing as race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    What people like Cruz do is to perpetuate prejudice.
    Sure, but he doesn't stop any discussions of racial issues.

    Do you think you are perpetuating prejudice against the wealthy and corporations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Sure, but he doesn't stop any discussions of racial issues.

    Do you think you are perpetuating prejudice against the wealthy and corporations?
    Noooooo dont you know that leftists operate in a vacuum where they are the fucking angels and everyone else are devil's? It's the mindset of a 3 year old.

    Notice how only trump incited people but they never say anything that could incite anyone. They are pieces of shit.

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    CRT IS "INSTITUTIONAL, SYSTEMIC RACISM".

    IT TEACHES THAT RACISM IS INHERENT, AND SKIN COLOR = BEHAVIOR.

    COMPLETE FUCKING NONSENSE ,AND DR.KING IS ROLLING IN HIS GRAVE HEARING THIS BULLSHIT FROM THE MARXIST MORONS...
    TRUMP WILL TAKE FORTY STATES...UNLESS THE SAME IDIOTS WHO BROUGHT US THE 2020 DUNCE-O-CRAT IOWA CLUSTERFUCK CONTINUE THEIR SEDITIOUS ACTIVITIES...THEN HE WILL WIN EVEN MORE ..UNLESS THE RED CHINESE AND DNC COLLUDE, USE A PANDEMIC, AND THEN THE DEMOCRATS VIOLATE ARTICLE II OF THE CONSTITUTION, TO FACILLITATE MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL, UNVETTED, MAIL IN BALLOTS IN THE DARK OF NIGHT..


    De Oppresso Liber

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    I clearly said I have no desire to limit discussions, but as an old guy I have heard these discussions many times. Somebody makes a point and one person gives the standard liberal response and another gives the standard conservative response.

    You said you believe/accept most of the tenets of CRT; yet, you also said a theory is a set of unproven assumptions. Why do you believe something that you say is unproven?

    Put a bunch of white people in a room and tell them they are racists and you have already lost whatever you are trying to achieve. And, it makes little sense when CRT tells us there is no such thing as race.
    We can all read the dictionary definition of CRT. But even with that I don't think most of us (myself included) have a true idea what it all entails and then how that translates into the classroom. So there's a certain abstract element to it that we're arguing here imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    We can all read the dictionary definition of CRT. But even with that I don't think most of us (myself included) have a true idea what it all entails and then how that translates into the classroom. So there's a certain abstract element to it that we're arguing here imo.
    A lot of the propositions have been taught in the classroom for years including when I was in college in the 1960s. "Institutional racism" was much easier to describe when segregation prohibited blacks from participation. Today when everyone can participate and most institutions seek greater diversity it is much harder to make the same argument.

    Many of my colleagues in the social sciences wanted to be able to preach against the evils but when most of those evils disappeared they had nothing more to use so they needed new evils like white privilege to substitute for segregation. They have a need to prove their superior morality and concern for minorities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZappasGuitar View Post
    This nation will NEVER have an honest discussion about Critical Race Theory until the GOP STOPS LYING ABOUT IT...


    Ted Cruz's erroneous definition of Critical Race Theory explains WHITE America

    The Texas Senator is apparently confused about CRT and the KKK.



    At the conservative Faith and Freedom Forum this past week, Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, launched an attack on critical race theory. Such rants have become a staple for Republicans lately, but Cruz set himself apart by asserting that the legal theory was “every bit as racist as the Klansmen in white sheets.”

    Cruz offered no evidence for these claims, because there is none.

    To say this is nonsense feels painfully obvious. The Ku Klux Klan’s ideology began with the premise that racial differences were an obvious biological and scientific fact and that all human activities had to be organized around that fact; critical race theorists take as their starting point the belief that race is a fiction, that it’s an invented concept that has no basis in biology or science.

    The Klan worked to put its racist beliefs into action through Jim Crow laws in the South and immigration restrictions for the nation as a whole; critical race theorists have devoted themselves to identifying the remainders of that racism in the law and rooting it out.

    And, most obviously, the KKK was a terrorist organization responsible for decades of white supremacist violence that included thousands of murders, mutilations and bombings of African Americans and other minorities. The law school professors behind critical race theory are not.

    Despite the vast differences between the Klan and critical race theorists, Cruz twisted himself into knots insisting they were the same by grossly misrepresenting the scholarly field. "Critical race theory says every white person is a racist," the senator asserted. "Critical race theory says America's fundamentally racist and irredeemably racist. Critical race theory seeks to turn us against each other and if someone has a different color skin, seeks to make us hate that person."

    Cruz offered no evidence for these claims, because there is none. Far from arguing that individual white people are all racist, critical race theorists assert that focusing on the actions of individuals is meaningless because racism is more deeply rooted in larger structural and systemic problems.

    Rather than believing America is “irredeemably racist,” critical race theorists have stated that their reckoning with the submerged role of racism in America is a path to redeem the nation and fulfill the promises of emancipation and the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. Critical race theorists also do not seek to turn Americans against each other, but rather to help them understand the actual history of the nation they share as citizens.

    While Cruz’s claim that critical race theorists are “every bit as racist” as Klansmen is laughable, it notably fits into a larger historical pattern in which white southerners asserted that the critics of white supremacy were just as bad — or worse — than the defenders of white supremacy.

    During the civil rights era, segregationist leaders across the South complained that they were being besieged by “extremists on both sides,” by which they meant white supremacist organizations like the Ku Klux Klan and its white-collar counterpart, the White Citizens’ Councils, and civil rights organizations, like the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP)

    In Louisiana, Democratic Governor Russell Long in 1956 blamed racial troubles in his state on “extremists” he saw in both the NAACP, which was seeking enforcement of the Supreme Court’s rulings against school segregation, and the White Citizens’ Councils, which was working furiously to block its implementation. The Louisiana legislature even tried to ban the NAACP, notably using a law originally designed to crack down on the Klan.

    In South Carolina, Judge J. Henry Johnson told a grand jury in 1958 that both sides of the civil rights struggle were to blame for racial turmoil in the region. “The NAACP is just as bad as the KKK,” the segregationist asserted, because he believed both as “violence inciting organizations.” (Cruz might be interested to note that the judge also disparaged Communists, who he said tended to be “first or second generation Americans with names ending in X, or Y, or Z.”)

    This is a tried-and-true line of attack from those who wish to preserve the status quo.

    As government officials like Long and Johnson advanced this false equivalency between civil rights organizations like the NAACP and white supremacist ones like the KKK or White Citizens’ Councils, ordinary white southerners soon drew the same conclusion.

    In 1962, for instance, a letter to the editor of the Knoxville Herald argued that the NAACP and the KKK were in the same class. “Both are extremists,” the correspondent claimed. “Both incite violence. Both have the hate that is not part of the American way of life.”

    Convincing ordinary Americans that the enemies of the Klan were just as bad as the Klan itself was, of course, the entire point. It still is.

    This is a tried-and-true line of attack from those who wish to preserve the status quo, but in this instance it’s especially egregious. Critical race theorists seek to expose the ways in which white supremacists — like Long, the Louisiana state legislature, or Johnson — abused the powers of their offices to embed racist principles and policies in our political and legal systems.

    It’s bad enough that Cruz slanders them. But it’s even worse that he uses the exact same line of argument against them that those segregationists did.

    https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/ted-cr...white-n1271484
    It is this year's "War on Christmas".

    No one in the rightwing was hollering about CRT 12 months ago in any measurable way.

    It is this year's "War on Christmas".

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Pretty obvious it is one of the right's campaign wedge issues for 2022, plays to the base and can be adapted to cover an array of dog whistles, the Willie Hortons are too obvious in the twenty first century
    It is the season for phony culture wars, and CRT is this year's "War on Christmas".

    I am still waiting for the institution of marriage to be destroyed by gay marriage as Deplorables predicted two decades ago

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    A lot of the propositions have been taught in the classroom for years including when I was in college in the 1960s. "Institutional racism" was much easier to describe when segregation prohibited blacks from participation. Today when everyone can participate and most institutions seek greater diversity it is much harder to make the same argument.

    Many of my colleagues in the social sciences wanted to be able to preach against the evils but when most of those evils disappeared they had nothing more to use so they needed new evils like white privilege to substitute for segregation. They have a need to prove their superior morality and concern for minorities.
    Since you're in the academic world I find it interesting the many complaints about (institutional) racism at our Universities. You've seen it, progressives started taking over Universities in the '60's and little has changed since. Universities aren't being run by uneducated redneck Trump supporters. Yet these places are supposedly unwelcoming to and discriminate against P.O.C.

    Your post is spot on. Ibram Kendi and the whole anti-racism movement is predicated around it is racist if we don't have equal outcomes. We're not talking equal opportunity but equal outcomes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Since you're in the academic world I find it interesting the many complaints about (institutional) racism at our Universities. You've seen it, progressives started taking over Universities in the '60's and little has changed since. Universities aren't being run by uneducated redneck Trump supporters. Yet these places are supposedly unwelcoming to and discriminate against P.O.C.

    Your post is spot on. Ibram Kendi and the whole anti-racism movement is predicated around it is racist if we don't have equal outcomes. We're not talking equal opportunity but equal outcomes.
    At black universities there are complaints (and lawsuits) about discrimination against foreign professors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokmaster View Post
    CRT IS "INSTITUTIONAL, SYSTEMIC RACISM".

    IT TEACHES THAT RACISM IS INHERENT, AND SKIN COLOR = BEHAVIOR.

    COMPLETE FUCKING NONSENSE ,AND DR.KING IS ROLLING IN HIS GRAVE HEARING THIS BULLSHIT FROM THE MARXIST MORONS...
    You never heard of CRT prior to six months ago, and you can only parrot what you heard rightwing media personalities say about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    At black universities there are complaints (and lawsuits) about discrimination against foreign professors.
    This is random but my Pastor posted on social media this weekend that Juneteenth is not a day of celebration for white people and we need to solemnly reflect about our role in supporting white supremacy and how we can dismantle it. (He’s a big Ibram Kendi guy). So that ties in with CRT to a degree in that regard.

    Most people here don’t live on the coast or have kids going to fancy private schools where many of the biggest battles over CRT are taking place. Thus the thinking it’s made up or not real. I don’t think the topic is going away anytime soon

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